The lesser of two evils, ladies and gents.
this post was submitted on 15 May 2024
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Don't you know Trump is gonna genocide harder? Some shitlib told me yesterday trump will conduct a real genocide, as if the one happening in front of our eyes is fake
It's definitely not a genocide. Not sure about fake probably just not a genocide.
Except the part where it meets every aspect of a genocide.
If you're going to define your movement as anti-genocidal you should really have a firm grasp on what genocide is and who is committing it:
Article II of the Convention defines genocide as:
... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
- (a) Killing members of the group;
- (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Hamas, what Israel has been clear they intend to destroy, is not a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. However, Jews/Israel/Israelis, what Hamas has been clear they intend to destroy, are. Therefore, legally Oct 7 was an act of genocide, and Israel's war on Hamas is not. Such a designation has nothing to do with body count.
I support Israel because I oppose the genocidal. Binding their hands and preventing them from retaliating in self-defense only serves to support genocidal Hamas by keeping them in power.
"Look at me displacing almost 2 million people and bombing their homes and cities whole to the ground one by one. It's not a genocide though, because I haven't explicitely claimed that my goal is to commit a genocide."
The thing is, Israel's leaders have expressed genocidal intent over and over again. Just read South Africa's allegations at the ICJ. They have the receipts.
If so then the wars in Korea, Vietnam, and Chechnya were all genocides.
When entire civilian populations are bombed or starved, then yes. The US is not free of war crimes. They’re merely immune from the consequences.
Not just the US. Chechnya was invaded by Russia. German civilians were bombed by the UK and USSR.
In fact, it's hard to find a large-scale modern war that didn't cause thousands of civilian casualties.
Absolutely, there were millions of civilian casualties in WWII. The difference here is that there have been, according to Israel, only 273 soldiers killed in ground operation combat vs the 13,000 civilians killed on Gaza’s side. (According to the new, lower estimates.) This is not so much a war as a one-sided beatdown.
Are you really suggesting that every asymmetrical war that is conducted successfully is genocide? O.o
No, I’m saying that if a nation has such a huge advantage they also have more responsibility to select targets carefully so as to not kill noncombatants.
Now you're getting it
"Genocide" is just another word for "war"?
When it's targeted at a specific group of people and there's such a dramatic power imbalance, yes. Whether modern definitions agree or not.
It's almost as if words mean things and have specific definitions, especially legal ones. Feel free to criticize such behaviors with different accurate words for things you don't like.
If someone punches you to death, declaring they weren't trying to kill you doesn't make them any less guilty of murder.
If someone punches you to death, declaring they weren’t trying to kill you doesn’t make them any less guilty of murder.
Actually, in the US it could. Intent is the difference between murder and manslaughter.
Curious how you moved the goal posts from "not openly stating one's intent" which was used as justification to claim what Israel is doing is not a Genocide to "not having intent" which is what defines the difference between murder and manslaught.
People are convicted of murder all the time when they didn't openly said their intention was murder if it can be shown beyond reasonable doubt that it was their intention.
So the previous poster's point holds very well and you just further dug the grave on yours.
On the other hand, genocide was committed in October, when Hamas brutally attacked the Jewish state, murdering an estimated 1,200 people, Schiff said.
…and the article lost credibility. If what Israel is doing isn’t genocide, then what Hamas did can’t be genocide.
Looked up the people quoted in the article. Rabbi Danny Schiff is an ethics lawyer from Pittsburgh, not a genocide scholar. Avi Ben-Hur, who is more qualified to speak on this said:
“We have a monster on our doorstep,” he said. “We were caught asleep. We had horrible things done to us. It’s not a question of payback. We have to retrieve our safety and security so people can go back to their homes and live their lives like normal people. We have to degrade the monster’s offensive capabilities so this can’t happen again.” source.
Calling them “monsters,” and dehumanizing people, doesn’t gain my trust.
Oct 7 literally is an act of genocide, see my post above. You're saying they don't have credibility because you don't understand what genocide is. This designation has nothing to do with body count.
Even if the definition of “genocide” is ceded. The crimes against humanity outlined in the ICJ against Israel and the ongoing humanitarian crisis created by the ongoing conflict is damning.
If we wait to call it a “genocide” after it’s already been committed, then the world will have failed Palestine.
You support Israel because you oppose the genocidal.This is one of the most batshit insane things i have read on this site,you really cannot have typed that with a straight face.
Anytime somebody starts quibbling over whether something is technically genocide, they’re an immoral person and nothing they say is of any worth to the human species. I didn’t get past the first sentence you wrote before I clicked away.
Take your hasbara bullshit somewhere else. According to that same organization you took your definition from, an occupying nation like Israel can not claim self defense when attacked
Sorry to invade your echo chamber with dissent. It must pain you to be reminded that not everyone agrees with you, that must be so hard for you.
an occupying nation like Israel can not claim self defense when attacked
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. A blockade is not an occupation.
Say what?
New York (20 October 2022) -- There are reasonable grounds to conclude that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory is now unlawful under international law due to its permanence and the Israeli Government’s de-facto annexation policies, according to the first report to the General Assembly issued today by the United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel.
Oh, I forgor, the United Nations is Hamas now.
Are you talking about the Trump that won't quit talking about how antisemitic Biden has been in the Gaza genocide?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/09/us/politics/trump-biden-jews.html
Imagine seeing someone yell at a rapist in the middle of raping that they aren't raping viciously enough and then thinking that it would be good to send that guy in there instead. I agree, no rape would be best, but I'm pretty sure the victim in this case would prefer the current rapist over the one complaining about how the current rapist is being offensively gentle.
Beyond your disgusting analogy, if you think Palestinians give a shit who sends the bombs to Israel that are going to kill them you're not living in reality.
Tell me you're voting for Biden on domestic policy grounds, and I'll agree with you because that's my plan, but stop dressing this up as anything that's not as bad as it could be
Do you realize that if today the casualties on both sides of Gaza and isreal since October happened again, and then every day that many more is added, let's say 40,000 per day. If we continue doing that every single day, we wouldn't reach the world war 2 casualties until 2027. So yes, things can, and have very recently been much worse.
Biden is a bastard, he is blowing up gazan children daily, and I hope the universe makes a special exception for him and creates a biblical hell. Trump calls this "level of restraint" antisemitic. Trump is in extreme debt, angry as hell, and he has a bunch of racist anti-muslim fanatics he's trying to please. He can absolutely make things worse.
What is worse than genocide? You are the epitome of my original comment, 'Trump's gonna genocide harder'
Are you seriously a Trump supporter because you think the conservatives will be kinder to a group of minority Muslims that are up against Jewish Israel? Is this the first time you've ever paid attention to American politics?
Look up what a president by the name of George Bush Jr. did to the Middle East, you're about to have your political views dumped completely upside-down. The Republicans are not nearly as buddy-buddy with Islamic minorities as you've somehow been lead to believe.
No one is defending republicans, we are saying Biden is doing exactly what Trump might do.
Man Biden is really trying to lose the upcoming election isn't he. A year ago I would not have predicted that he would fuck up such an easy reelection this badly, but here we are. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory I guess.
Apparently Biden has always been this shitty when it comes to Palestine. Some things children just never grow out of it seems.
Millions of children never grew old because of Kissingers little psychopathic padawans in Washington for decades now. Those children don’t care about this one losing or winning his little beauty contest.
And millions of children will die in the future no matter whose dick is being sucked in the Oval Office. There are more omnipotent deciders who decide who lives and who dies.
This greedy, bloodthirsty, manipulative, sociopathic voting won’t change anything no matter who wins.
Fuck Biden!
Just gonna leave this here
There were other factors at play, too.
Nah this gaslighting is just a weekly occurrence at this point. Biden pretends to wag his finger against israel when they commit war crimes and walks it back a week later. Genocide Joe is fully on board.
The package can be blocked by Congress if a majority in both chambers object.
Reminder that Biden has already went around Congress this year to send weapons to Israel.
Checks and balances only matter when it can be used to stop things voters want for some reason.