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'I will not feed a demon': YouTuber Ruby Franke's child abuse case rooted in religious extremism (apnews.com)

submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

31 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The malnourished and badly bruised son of a parenting advice YouTuber politely asks a neighbor to take him to the nearest police station in newly released video from the day his mother and her business partner were arrested on child abuse charges in southern Utah.

The 12-year-old son of Ruby Franke, a mother of six who dispensed advice to millions via a popular YouTube channel, had escaped through a window and approached several nearby homes until someone answered the door, according to documents released Friday by the Washington County Attorney’s office.

Crime scene photos, body camera video and interrogation tapes were released a month after Franke and business partner Jodi Hildebrandt, a mental health counselor, were each sentenced to up to 30 years in prison. A police investigation determined religious extremism motivated the women to inflict horrific abuse on Franke’s children, Washington County Attorney Eric Clarke announced Friday.

“The women appeared to fully believe that the abuse they inflicted was necessary to teach the children how to properly repent for imagined ‘sins’ and to cast the evil spirits out of their bodies,” Clarke said.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

The boy later told investigators that Hildebrandt had used rope to bind his arms and his feet to weights on the ground. She used a mixture of cayenne pepper and honey to dress his wounds, according to the police report.

In handwritten journal entries also released Friday, Franke chronicles months of daily abuse that included starving her son and 9-year-old daughter, forcing them to work for hours in the summer heat and isolating them from the outside world. The women often made the kids sleep on hard floors and sometimes locked them in a concrete bunker in Hildebrandt’s basement.

In a July 2023 entry titled “Big day for evil,” she describes holding the boy’s head under water and closing off his mouth and nose with her hands.

Body camera video shows officers entering Hildebrandt’s house and detaining her on the couch while others scour the winding hallways in search of the young girl. They quickly discover a child with a buzzcut sitting cross-legged in a dark, empty closet. After hours of sitting with the girl and feeding her pizza, police coax her out.

Wtf, i can't imagine being raised like this 😭

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Religion as the basis for the justification of the suffering of children...

Is reason alone to avoid it.

My heart aches for the 12-year old boy and his siblings. I feel so bad for them. I hope they are getting the care they need.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Friendly reminder to everyone that the rest of the world has signed on the United Nation's Connvention on the Rights of the Child; the US doesn't like that it could prevent children from being spanked, because God wants us to spank our children (spare the rod, spoil the child).

Religion is often a basis for the suffering of children.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

The US doesn't like the idea of taking responsibility for its actions ever.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

For anyone that's interested in a deep dive into what kind of shit was going on here, John Dehlin has covered this pretty extensively on his Mormon Stories podcast. Episodes 1805, 1807, 1808, 1809 (removed due to threat of a lawsuit for defamation; you'd have to find an archived copy. Adam Steed is a difficult interviewee in many ways, unless you are already deeply, intimately aware of Mormonism; his thoughts are often very jumbled and he has a hard time expressing things in a linear fashion), 1817, 1817, 1825 (tangentially; it's about "Visions of Glory"), 1826, 1844, 1865, 1869, and 1873. It's also tangentially related the the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell murder cases, in that the beliefs of Jodi Hildebrant and Ruby Franke were both heavily influenced by the same apocalyptic book, "Visions of Glory".

Keep in mind that the episodes I just listed comprise roughly around 30 hours of listening. About half of them are long-form interviews. Unless you have an an interest in cults, religious indoctrination, apocalyptic beliefs, this is probably not going to be your thing. And unless you were raised Mormon--or have listened to the other 5400 hours or so of podcasts that John Dehlin has done--it's probably going to be a little hard to follow what's going on.

A very, very short version is that, while Franke was always borderline abusive as a mom (and that's pretty par for the course in Mormon families, TBH), Hildebrandt is an incredibly charismatic, persuasive psychopath that used a version of Mormon theology to induce her to be far, far worse than she would have otherwise been. If Hildebrandt had been male--because you must be male to have real power in the Mormon church--she almost certainly would have ended up leading a fundamentalist cult.

EDIT When I say that Franke was borderline abusive, I mean that she was borderline before she met Jodi Hildebrandt. Once Hildebrandt attached herself to Franke, Franke's behavior became overtly, obviously abusive. In my opinion, Franke was always vulnerable to acting in that way, but Hildebrant was who convinced her that abuse was appropriate and moral.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Franke was always borderline abusive as a mom (and that’s pretty par for the course in Mormon families, TBH)

I don't know about families in minority sects, but this kind of thing is extremely rare among families in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It certainly happens as much as in any other demographic, but generally rarely. The Church does not tolerate the abuse of children and the actions of Franke will certainly result in excommunication (if it hasn't already).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Would you care to make a wager on her excommunication? Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell were ex'd, but they were ex'd for apostasy, not for murdering children. Hildebrandt should be excommunicated for apostasy, but she likely has too much insider knowledge to safely kick out.

Moreover, I know that the shit Franke did (prior to Hildebrant's involvement; Franke really went off the deep end once she connected to Hildebrant) would be seen on the spectrum of normal in Mormon households because that's the same kind of household I was raised in, and my dad was a bishop. Twice. In two different wards. My mom, now in her 80s, still has the same attitudes about 'personal responsibility' and 'sin' that Franke does/did. The only difference is the question of degree.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Hildebrandt should be excommunicated for apostasy, but she likely has too much insider knowledge to safely kick out.

Lol, that's some wild conspiracy theory stuff right there 🤣

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Wild conspiracy theories about the shit that goes on at the upper levels of the Mormon church has an unfortunate way of being proven true years and decades after the fact.

Many of the decisions that get made by upper levels tends to be about protecting the name and reputation of the church, which means hiding the piles of dirty laundry. Moreover, if you've been sending people to a particular therapist for decades for 'sex addiction', and Hildebrandt has clearly been favored for such, then it's going to be really hard for them to turn around and say, no, we've been wrong about her this whole time, she's been preaching apostasy for decades, oops, we dun fucked up.

Has the Mormon church said anything yet about whether or not Tim Ballard was excommunicated, despite his use of elder Ballard's name and his own sex abuse of women? Or are they still keeping that one quiet?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Wild conspiracy theories about the shit that goes on at the upper levels of the Mormon church has an unfortunate way of being proven true years and decades after the fact.

Such as? There are many lies that are commonly spread about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members. Which ones are you referring to that have been "proven true"?

Has the Mormon church said anything yet about whether or not Tim Ballard was excommunicated, despite his use of elder Ballard’s name and his own sex abuse of women? Or are they still keeping that one quiet?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not issue public announcements when a member's membership is withdrawn. The decision to do such is made at the stake level. People with some level of public prominence, such as Tim Ballard, are known to announce the withdrawal of their membership themselves, usually in order to garner additional support from their followers. The policies of the Church on this topic are not secret and can be found here: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/32-repentance-and-membership-councils?lang=eng#title_number71

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Such as? There are many lies that are commonly spread about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members. Which ones are you referring to that have been “proven true”?

How about pretty much everything that Gerald and Sandra Tanner tried to publicize? Rock in a hat, treasure digging, JS Jr. criminal conviction, JS Jr. "polygamy" (calling it polygamy would be a stretch, since many of the women were already married), polygamy in general (it was being actively denied by people that were polygamysts, including JS Jr., apostles, and shit, even rank and file members were lied to until BY led the majority of Mormons to Utah), the end of polygamy with the first manifesto (in fact, it's been demonstrated that there was at least one sanctioned polygamous marriage by the child of an apostle after the second manifesto), Ensign Peak & tithing funds being used for City Creek Mall ("oh, tithing didn't pay for it, we just invested the tithing and then used the investment fund to pay for it..."), PoGP not being a translation at all (in recent years they've entirely de-ephasized it, but when I was in seminary they printed the Egyptian funerary text facsimile at the front of the book of Moses, and claimed that it was a translation; later it became the inspiration, and now...?), the Kinderhook plates, the temple endowment ceremony being ripped off from Free Masonry, direct church involvement in the prop 8 campaign in California, and on, and on, and on.

You can even look at Nelson's, "saying Mormon is a victory for Satan", and contrast it with Hinckley who championed the, "I'm a Mormon" ad campaign that ran for years. Nelson is claiming that his words are straight from god, so apparently Hinckley was being deceived by Satan when he green-lit a PR campaign...? Every prophet is a prophet until a new prophet says something that contradicts the old one, and then the old one was "speaking as a man". But wait, weren't we promised that god would never let a prophet mislead his people? Hmmm.

This is the pattern of the Mormon church. Everything is denied, until the evidence is so overwhelming, and then members are told that it was always this way, and if you didn't know it's not their fault.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not issue public announcements when a member’s membership is withdrawn.

They used to print notices of excommunication in Desert News. Literally. So this idea that "oh no, we can't tell people about this, they need their privacy" is utter nonsense.

I'm going to assume that you're a believing Mormon, because there really isn't anyone else that defends their nonsense.

So, here's your fundamental problem: the beliefs are un-falsifiable. That is, you study, you pray, you think that god gives you good feelings through the holy ghost that confirms that it's true. If you don't feel the good feelings, then you believe that you need to pray more, study more, etc., and you need to do this until you do get the 'right' answer. But here's the problem: most religious converts report the same process, and the same feelings. People that have converted to Islam from atheism, people that have converted to Judaism from Christianity, and even people that become Buddhist report going through a similar process. When I was Mormon, I was taught that Satan could counterfeit the feelings from the holy spirit, and that people that thought they felt the spirit when it was telling them that Mormon doctrine was wrong were being deceived. And yet, how can you know that this is true? How can you know that you aren't being deceived? The answer is that you don't. You believe you aren't being deceived, but you can't know it. Moreover, I will bet every dollar that I have in my wallet right now that you've never put the same kind of effort into finding out the Truth of any other religion; you have almost certainly never attempted, for instance, to deeply study The Holy Books of Thelema under the tutalage of a scholar of the Ordo Templi Orientis to discover if Crowley was truly a prophet or not. Instead, you have assumed that your feeling are Truth.

As long as you remain convinced that the Mormon church is absolutely god's One True Church™, you won't be able to truly see and understand the near constant changes in doctrine and dogma for what they are.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I don't think anything that you listed is a secret. And yes, I am an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I'm not sure your talking points are made in good faith (you sound like you have a massive chip on your shoulder) but I'll try to address them anyway.

Every prophet is a prophet until a new prophet says something that contradicts the old one, and then the old one was “speaking as a man”.

This is a mischaracterization about Latter-day Saint beliefs regarding contemporary prophets. Unlike most Christian sects, we believe in an open canon and that God actively communicates to humankind via a prophet today just as in biblical times. A prophet can say one thing and then another prophet can say something else, and both can still be speaking the word of God authoritatively.

They used to print notices of excommunication in Desert News. Literally. So this idea that “oh no, we can’t tell people about this, they need their privacy” is utter nonsense.

It is not "utter nonsense", it is the policy of the Church. Your logic is faulty, because it could be used to define any improvement in any organization or group as "utter nonsense". One could just as easily say that because slavery was once legal in the United States, the emancipation proclamation is "utter nonsense".

So, here’s your fundamental problem: the beliefs are un-falsifiable.

From where I stand, that is your fundamental problem. You sound like you feel personally affronted when someone has faith in something that you can't observe with your natural senses. That's okay, I get it. It's not for you. Why spend so much energy arguing with an internet stranger whom you identify yourself as being obviously an adherent to such a faith?

I am comfortable with my faith and have no interest in forcing anyone to believe like I do. However, it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder and are heavily prejudiced against religious people in general and Latter-day Saints in particular. I can't envision a productive outcome to continuing this discussion, but should you have questions about my beliefs and are willing to listen with an open mind, my DMs are always open.

I wish you a joyous day.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I don’t think anything that you listed is a secret.

My dude. Really? This is the classic Mormon gaslighting; "we've always known this". No, this was actively hidden and concealed for centuries. For fuck sake, Fawn Brodie was excommunicated for publishing No Man Knows My History--officially it was apostasy--and now it's acknowledged to be historically accurate. I was in for more than two decades, and have been out for more than three, and there's a vast difference between what we were taught as being absolutely true and what was available for study when I was 20 compared to what there is now.

you sound like you have a massive chip on your shoulder

Yes. I do. I insist on things being factually true. I insist on honesty. I was raised to believe that honesty isn't just telling the truth, but that it's telling the whole truth, and not intentionally omitting truth or speaking things that are factually correct with the intent of leading a person to a false conclusion. That's what I was taught by the Mormon church, and the Mormon church has never come even close to living up to what it teaches in that respect.

A prophet can say one thing and then another prophet can say something else, and both can still be speaking the word of God authoritatively.

Yeah, no. That a bullshit rationalization that you need to tell yourself in order to be able to maintain your belief. God's doctrine is supposed to be unchanging, and yet it changes continuously. The November 2015 policy was prophecy and the will of god, and then just a couple years later it wasn't. Temple ceremonies are supposed to be directly from god, and yet those have changed massively over the years. Polygamy was supposed to be the everlasting covenant, but then it wasn't. And let me be blunt: deviating from these points of doctrine was apostasy and violators were subject to excommunication and the revocation of their temple covenants. That means that for doctrine that changed with the whim of the prophet and apostles, the eternal salvation of people was taken away.

it is the policy of the Church.

...Which is claimed to be doctrine and the will of god by the prophet, and then changes with the change in leadership.

You sound like you feel personally affronted when someone has faith in something that you can’t observe with your natural senses.

...

There are a lot of things that you can't observe directly with your natural sense. Tons of things. But you can prove their effects, and you can test them. You can form a hypothesis, you can test that hypothesis, and then you refine your hypothesis as necessary.

To be clear, if I discover that something I believe is not supported by facts, my belief changes. I follow where the evidence leads. I certainly have my own cognitive biases--that's unavoidable--but I do my best to be honest with myself, and to question my own beliefs and biases. My views have changed radically over the last 30-odd years as I've evidence that has tested and contradicted my beliefs. But what would change your belief? Would any factual evidence change them?

I am comfortable with my faith and have no interest in forcing anyone to believe like I do

Then you aren't following the guidance of the prophet for every member to be a missionary.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

God’s doctrine is supposed to be unchanging, and yet it changes continuously.

The doctrine is pretty unchanging. You sound like you have a misunderstanding of what is "doctrine" and what is not. I have no interest in convincing you of anything, but I will address some of what you have stated just so other people do not get the wrong idea. Much of what you have stated is incorrect.

The November 2015 policy was prophecy and the will of god, and then just a couple years later it wasn’t.

The November 2015 policy change was never prophecy. It was never characterized as prophecy. It was always merely policy.

Temple ceremonies are supposed to be directly from god, and yet those have changed massively over the years.

Temple ceremonies have never been directly from God. From the very beginning, the first time they were introduced in Nauvoo.

Polygamy was supposed to be the everlasting covenant, but then it wasn’t.

Nope. The everlasting covenant was about our doctrine of eternal marriage in general; polygamy was only included as far as it involved a sealing in the temple. The words describing this are the same as they were when Joseph Smith wrote them in 1843.

…Which is claimed to be doctrine and the will of god by the prophet, and then changes with the change in leadership.

Incorrect. The Church makes a clear distinction between its policies and its doctrine. See here: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2021/12/come-follow-me/why-does-church-policy-sometimes-change?lang=eng#title1

Then you aren’t following the guidance of the prophet for every member to be a missionary.

What, do you think missionaries go around baptizing people at gunpoint? I'm no longer a full-time proselytizing missionary, but even when I was, forcing people to join the Church against their will was never a part of the program. What I'm doing right now is being a missionary, by rebutting the misinformation you are posting. Since you've clearly got no interest in coming back, all I can hope is that you will find peace in your heart and stop spreading misinformation about us.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sounds like we really need a “priest hunter” profession again so we can squash religion once and for all.

People wonder why I’m so against religion, well folks, here is an easy example of why the delusional need to wake the fuck up.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

So you just want to murder the majority of the world's population who are religious because you think that'll stop atrocities? I think you're part of the problem, if you vehemently hate someone with different beliefs to that degree.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I never once said murder, I was more thinking catch and release [into prison]. Also, the world’s population is not a majority of priests.

Stop giving the delusional religious people of this world a safe space, this religion shit needs to stop, it only hurts humans in the long run.

I’m sorry you don’t get it, but thinking that religion is ok IS part of the problem…..pull your head out of your ass.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

But if you eliminate priests then more people will just become priests to replace them. Before you know it you'll have the majority of the world's population in jail.

There's no evidence for Christianity hurting humans. This antitheistic zealotry is no different than ISIS. "I'm right about god(s) and everyone else who disagrees must suffer"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Um, every nation on the face of this planet has endured a genocide by Christian missionaries. Christians spent the better part of 2000 years slaughtering, plundering, torturing, enslaving, and force converting every lower tech civilization they encountered. There is no organization in existence which has ever done greater harm to humanity.

But we don't want to kill you. We want to convince you all to stop. Stop believing you were ever a force for good. Stop hurting everyone around you out of self-righteous delusion. Stop believing a bunch of bronze age, middle eastern, medieval, mystical bullshit. We live in the modern world, and there is no question, we absolutely know better than they did.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The bitterest part?

"Do not harm little children" - Church of Satan
"One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason." - The Satanic Temple

Are you getting the picture? People who claim themselves to side with Satan are more eager to show compassion than people who claim to fight against a devil. It immediately reminds me what my grandma used to say, that "Protestants love the devil so much that they talk about him nonstop". (Not that the Catholic church is any better, I know.)

[I'm not Satanist, regardless of my nickname, by the way.]

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

It's just that she's crazy. Christianity in no way encourages abuse of children or even people who are demon possessed.

Psalm 127:3 ESV‬ [3] Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.

‭Matthew 19:13-15 ESV‬ [13] Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, [14] but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.” [15] And he laid his hands on them and went away.

‭Luke 17:2 ESV‬ [2] It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.

It's just a paranoid/crazy person masquerading as religious.

Edit: turns out she isn't even a Christian, she's a Mormon. I guessed she was a Protestant Christian from your message.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Give Deuteronomy 21:18-21 a check. Abridged version for you: unruly children should be stoned. What she did is biblically justified. You'll also find some "fun" stuff that should guide her actions in Exodus 21:15-17 and Psalm 137:8-9.

Of course, someone could play that game that Christian denominations love to play - where you redefine the canon for to include/exclude books based on which actions you want to justify. But that's from the Pentateuch, so kind of hard to brush off. Why is this disgusting shit there on first place?

In the meantime, the Satanists actually have rules to act with compassion and to not harm children. Yup.

Edit: turns out she isn’t even a Christian, she’s a Mormon. I guessed she was a Protestant Christian from your message.

Christians also love to play the "that group there is not Christian, even if they follow the Bible and call themselves Christians". I see this fairly often here... except that it's towards Protestants (that, acc. to the local mindset, includes Mormons, for the annoyance of both).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Oh boy! Bible verses taken out of context! Let's look into these, shall we?

Deuteronomy was about preparing Israel for the coming of Messiah. It's not a command for today's Christian people. Same with Exodus. They exist as historical record.

Psalm 137 is lamenting what Babylon did to Israel. It was an eye for an eye rhetoric, as the Babylonians had murdered their children. Again, Psalms aren't prescriptions. They're songs written by a Jewish king.

Mormons aren't Christian. They reject the Trinity for a start and have additional scripture, just like Islam with their Qur'an or Jehovah's witnesses with the Watchtower publications.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Ah yes, the continuously exhausting tradition of Christians who believe in one doctrine introduced hundreds of years after the death of Jesus Christ (trinitarianism) denying the beliefs of Christians who believe in other doctrines introduced after the death of Jesus Christ.

Our beliefs have much more in common than you think.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The trinity is literally in the Bible and Jesus Himself literally referenced it.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The concept of the trinity defined by the Nicene Creed is vastly elaborated compared to the verses in the New Testament that refer to it. At the same time, there are several instances where the trinitarian view of God is nonsensical, such as when the Father announces His acceptance of Jesus' baptism, or the numerous times Jesus stated that He was "returning" to "His Father". How would a single being return to Himself? Why would He engage in ventriloquism at the scene of His baptism?

Regardless, we both believe in Jesus Christ, even if we believe in different things about Him. We are therefore both Christians.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What you described the trinity as being was Modalism, which the Nicene creed doesn't teach. The definition of the trinity is in the Athanasian Creed.

To lay what the Bible clearly teaches:

There is one God. Jesus is God. Jesus always existed. The Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit is referenced in both testaments. The Father is God. The Father always existed. Jesus prays to the Father. The Father and the Holy spirit are both present alongside each other at Jesus' baptism. Jesus flat out equates the Father, Son and Holy Spirit together when talking of Baptism.

God is above creation and our laws. We only understand our unitarian nature - that we can only be in one place at one time. Just like how we being three dimensional creatures can only relate to three dimensions. So it wouldn't make sense for God to abide by our laws, but to be manifest in three persons spanning time and space and the laws of this universe.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

There is one God. Jesus is God. Jesus always existed. The Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit is referenced in both testaments. The Father is God. The Father always existed. Jesus prays to the Father. The Father and the Holy spirit are both present alongside each other at Jesus’ baptism. Jesus flat out equates the Father, Son and Holy Spirit together when talking of Baptism.

This is exactly the same doctrine as the Godhead. God the Father is God. God the Son, Jesus Christ, is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Three together in unity, all present during the baptism of Christ. All eternal.

I don't see a disagreement here.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

No it isn't, Mormons believe in three gods and that the father was once a human like us.

God “was once as one of us” and “all the spirits that God ever sent into the world” were likewise “susceptible of enlargement.” Joseph Smith preached that long before the world was formed, God found “himself in the midst” of these beings and “saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng&id=p18#p18

But where Latter-day Saints differ from other Christian religions is in their belief that God and Jesus Christ are glorified, physical beings and that each member of the Godhead is a separate being.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/godhead?lang=eng&id=p2#p2

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

Okay, but you're talking about an entirely different doctrine now: Deification.

Regardless, I consider myself a Christian because I worship Jesus Christ. Every religious service or act I have ever participated in has been done in His name. The most significant doctrines I believe in were preached by Him.

I find the idea that because I don't believe in the Athanasian Creed I am therefore not a Christian to be absurd and impossible to support authoritatively. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion on this matter.

I reject your opinion entirely.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago

Christianity in no way encourages abuse of children or even people who are demon possessed.

Neither does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or its members, who read and believe in the same verses you quoted.