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What are some book series like Harry Potter [quaint, pleasant, deep lore] but less childish and bigoted? (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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i love asoiaf but it's hard to start rereading atm of course

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

[Hermione] explained the Society for the Promotion of Elfish Welfare to a bemused Ron and Harry, saying that when they joined, the society will have three members. Ron protested that the House-elves are happy as they are, but eventually joins.

Hermione managed to get several students, such as Neville Longbottom, to join (paying a fee of two Sickles), though they only did so to stop her from badgering them. These students included a reluctant Ron Weasley (who thought S.P.E.W was a joke because its name reminded him of gagging) and an indifferent Harry Potter.

She also offered it to Hagrid, but he refused as well, saying that the elves liked to work. Fred and George Weasley also put in that the house elves were happy to work at Hogwarts.

Becoming infuriated with Hermione's "obsession" with the Society, Ron Weasley started calling the group "spew" and, on occasion parodied the name by inventing S.P.U.G., "Society for the Protection of Ugly Goblins". Hermione angrily replied to this by pointing out that goblins, unlike house-elves, were capable of defending themselves against wizards on their own.

Around 28 June 2011, when a Hogwarts student noticed a S.P.E.W. badge amidst Winky's stuff, Winky explained the organisation to them and how house-elves should be ashamed of it.

Taken from the wiki. The house elves were seen as happy to be slaves, and any attempt to free them was both unnatural and misguided. If you're looking for a more in-depth review of why the Harry Potter series was problematic, Shaun made a video about it about a year ago, and he actually (re)read the books before talking about it, unlike you or I. The section on slavery begins at 37:47.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well that's kinda my point though. If you look at it trying to find things to be offended about, you'll find them. They are non-human creatures, hermione essentially tries to force her morals on them despite their entire being wanting this lifestyle. This isn't a case of poor elves being forced into slavery, in the context of this world, this is what they are and what they want.

It's not saying slavery is a good thing, or a bad thing, but forcing beings to do things to fit your worldview is more immoral than letting it be. Granted, slavery is not quite the best method to make that point. But if you cannot accept a reality within a story without casting some real world agenda on it, you're gonna have a bad time. I do find it interesting that creatures being themselves is more problematic than all of the murder, torture, abuse and pain the characters experience.
But yeah, i can see why at first sight, someone might side with hermione if they don't think about it in the context of the story world. I'm also not saying this is Rowling's perspective, id rather avoid her as a person. But i do like the series, despite the many story inconsistencies, which frankly are a much larger problem with enjoying the stories than some wrongthink.

I think many of the best stories make you see the world differently. I've read many books by authors with horrible worldviews, but because i enjoy getting many perspectives on the world, as long as the story gives something to think about, im happy with it.

In conclusion: im a white male slave apologist and i should be cancelled. oh and i probably support trump too. i must be really dumb and brainwashed if i enjoy a book about wizards with a character named "Cho Chang" or whatever else is in your videos.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I do find it interesting that creatures being themselves is more problematic than all of the murder, torture, abuse and pain the characters experience.

I don't even know what you're referring to here. Are you thinking that the abuse the house elves are subjected to is not as bad as them "wanting" to be enslaved?

as long as the story gives something to think about, im happy with it.

I'm not convinced. You don't seem to really want to think about the story. We're shown, very clearly, that at least some of the elves want to be free, but the very next time they're brought up we're told "no, elves were born to be slaves. Slavery is their natural state, don't question it or try to change anything," which just might be more indicative of the author injecting her worldview than a good point about respecting others' cultures.

In conclusion: im a white male slave apologist and i should be cancelled. oh and i probably support trump too. i must be really dumb and brainwashed if i enjoy a book about wizards with a character named “Cho Chang” or whatever else is in your videos.

Your persecution fetish is showing.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Harry's whole life and the plot.
No, you see that because it's what you want to see. She's nuts but not pro slavery, and I think thats obvious to most readers. Not so much a persecution fetish, more preemptively compiling the type of stuff someone with your worldview might say.
I just try to see the nuance in things rather than making everything black and white. Unfortunately we live in a world of extremes now and this "problematic" shit is one side of it that ticks me off. The "muh libtards" gang makes just as little sense. End of the day, im probably just using you to vent, so thanks for listening.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Harry’s whole life and the plot.

Oh, well you see, the bad things that happen to Harry are depicted as bad by the book, whereas the slavery of the house elves is depicted as a good thing, or at least how things should be. The characters don't just shrug off someone's death and say "they'd be happy to have died for the cause," but they do say "house elves are happy to work, so we shouldn't end their slavery." That's the problematic part, and what makes it worse and worth talking about.

No, you see that because it’s what you want to see. She’s nuts but not pro slavery, and I think thats obvious to most readers.

She's very pro- house elf slavery. I don't know how you're reading the book (or just the wiki page in this case) and coming to another conclusion. The person trying to free them is seen as ridiculous, every character besides her thinks she's a hopeless idealist who doesn't know how the world works for wanting to end slavery, and even the main character sides more with the "why is she so upset about this" side than "we should end slavery".