this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2023

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submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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My first Android phone was the HTC One M8. I got it because at the time it made my iPhone 5 look like a chump. Bigger screen, unrivaled stereo front speakers, much more internal storage you name it.

I also got the LG G series after that because I loved that the battery was removable (I ended up with an enormous aftermarket battery pack that lasted 3.5 days of constant use) and the buttons were all on the back of the phone.

I got the Essential PH1 because the ceramic body was nice and the promise of the 2 pin magnetic accessory port was really neat (only a 360 camera was released for it but still).

I got a Pixel 4a because every Android phone at that point was a 6 inch rectangle with side buttons and a fingerprint reader but at least it was cheap and still had a headphone jack.

I'm glad to see flip phones returning because I think it is giving Android back what has always been its biggest advantage to me which is unique hardware features.

Personally, the HTC M8 speakers with the button layout of the LG G4 would be an intsa-buy for me to this day.

What kind of hardware features have you guys fallen in love with over the years and what do you value or would like to see return?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's not really a counter argument, you're just complaining about people talking about hardware features they want in a thread about...hardware features we want.

A counter argument would elaborate on why these features aren't relevant anymore, but you didn't include that. A counter argument would offer superior alternatives that should be used instead of SD cards or 3.5mm jacks, but you didn't include any of those. A counter argument would have addressed the initial arguments of cloud storage being an unnecessary expense and a wired jack being more reliable than Bluetooth, yet you didn't do that either.

Every thread about hardware has at least one guy bitching that phones should still have 3.5mm jacks and expandable storage, but the guy whining about him is just as consistent. Congratulations, you're a different layer of the exact problem you're complaining about.

RE: OP, 3.5mm jack and SD card, of course.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

My comment mentioned why the SD card was removed. To paraphrase Linus, they're the cheapest form of NAND storage and are extremely unreliable. When they fail, the average consumer blames the phone and not the cheap SD card they put into it. I'm not a fan of cloud storage but most people do not need anything other than the base variant now since it comes with 128 GB out of the box. Some manufacturers are even offering 256 GB.

I also mentioned that I'd like having the jack but it's not a dealbreaker that it's gone. Also doubt we would have seen as much progress with truly wireless earbuds if more manufacturers did not remove the headphone jack. I know some people detest them and think they're a cash grab but they're a game changer when it comes to exercising and moving around. However I'll agree that removing the jack also opened another revenue stream for manufacturers which could be construed as a cash grab.

Additionally I stated my point wasn't directly at the OP but was a rant at the senseless "no jack, no SD card, DOA" comment which can be seen at the launch of a phone who's manufacturer hasn't included those features for 5 or more years. It's just beating a dead horse at this point. It is like expecting CRT TVs to be the default instead of flat TVs. CRTs also had advantages but the market has moved on. Additionally I think it might be better to actually comment about a phone having a headphone jack or SD card slot or both of those since that's a much more positive way of looking at things since not having them is the default now.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

When they fail, the average consumer blames the phone and not the cheap SD card they put into it.

I remember I received a notification about a card that was about to fail or something, because it was too old. That was on an older Huawei phone but still. So I don't think it's this usual for people not to be aware that their SD cards would soon go away (instead of thinking they have a problem with their phones).

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Not sure if all manufacturers do this, there are also instances where the user might set up the SD card as adoptable storage which would make it hard to differentiate between internal storage and the SD card.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

@Positronic The system does explain every option when first inserting the card, though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

How many people are going to read that properly? We're not just talking about enthusiasts, regular users will do it if they get the option and think they can store their apps on there.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

My comment mentioned why the SD card was removed. To paraphrase Linus, they’re the cheapest form of NAND storage and are extremely unreliable.

Your comment mentioned why you personally don't like using SD cards, though I disagree that it's a reason to remove the functionality completely, which is why I wouldn't buy a phone without a slot. If you're having such reliability issues, you should buy a higher quality SD card. They're objectively more reliable than cloud storage though, should you ever go somewhere where network connectivity is an issue. And 128 GB is almost nothing, kinda proving my point that this is more of a use case point than an argument against the feature.

Also if they hadn’t removed the jack I doubt we would have seen as much progress with truly wireless earbuds.

Given that they're still using Bluetooth, which is still terrible with any interference, low bandwidth, and has the same tedious connectivity problems it's had for the past decade...I'd argue we have yet to see that progress where it matters.

the market has moved on.

If that were true, there wouldn't be so many people vocally expressing why new products aren't adequate without these basic features.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

My initial comment also mentioned why developers hated the SD card slot. To quote Koush

The SD card needs to go away. It's a nightmare for developers. There's too much variability here. SD Cards can be slow, resulting in poor app performance. They can come and go, or be swapped, and that results in unpredictable behavior if an app was expecting an SD card. One contiguous block of data needs to become the standard here (with different OEM SKUs for more/less storage), as it has been on iOS since the first iPhone.

The comments from Linus came from an industry insider he said he trusts. I would be inclined to believe him since he used to carry a Note9 and was a massive advocate of SD cards.

Also don't think the reliability of the cards was an issue when I got them, they were high rated Samsung and Sandisk models.

And 128 GB is almost nothing, kinda proving my point that this is more of a use case point than an argument against the feature.

You're looking at this from the point of a power user and not the average person. Most normal people just get the base variant when they see it has 128 GB and are happy with it.

They're objectively more reliable than cloud storage though, should you ever go somewhere where network connectivity is an issue

I mentioned I dislike cloud storage but with USB-C ports I can actually use my external SSD or a USB drive to backup my phone if I want to although it's not something I do often.

Given that they're still using Bluetooth, which is still terrible with any interference, low bandwidth, and has the same tedious connectivity problems it's had for the past decade...I'd argue we have yet to see that progress where it matters.

When was the last time you used a Bluetooth headset? I had issues initially in 2018 and 2019 but things like the Galaxy Buds+ and newer generations of truly wireless earbuds have fixed the connectivity and interference issues. Some Bluetooth headphones support LDAC and LHDC codecs which allow for high bandwidth. LDAC is part of AOSP so it should be on every Android phone running Oreo or newer unless the OEM has removed it for some reason.

If that were true, there wouldn't be so many people vocally expressing why new products aren't adequate without these basic features.

That's because there are a small group of enthusiasts who are extremely vocal. Most people have moved on, they may want one or both features but they aren't dealbreakers for them. Also wouldn't say a bunch of enthusiasts complaining means it expresses the sentiments of everyone. Look at the outcry about the iPhone mini, it didn't sell very well but online communities would have you believe it was the most popular device of that lineup.