this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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19
What do you think of Just Stop Oil? (lemmy.ml)
submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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My Views: I would love it if Solar, Hydro and Wind and other renewable sources of energy + Non Renewable Nuclear were to provide enough energy reliably to completely replace fossil fuels, but I know it's not a feasible solution at least at this point. And maybe it will never be. Renewable sources of energy are highly dependent on some metal mining (some are rare metals) and I doubt if the prices of those metals would go lower as the demand for those renewable sources of energy sky rockets. i.e., It's a non-linear equation, the price of renewables will not remain the same if we want to meet 100% of our energy needs from renewables. So, Just Stopping Oil is a pretty stupid idea concocted by people who have a much better standard of living than me.

Skip This if you must: As an Indian, I can speak for 1.4B people (I asked) when I say that, no matter how much pressure developed nations impose on India and countries like India, we will still keep using the least costliest source of energy, because we too want nice things and we too want our women to be liberated from cow dung/wood stoves and from the burden of washing clothes and utensils. So yeah, there is no way bar great scientific innovation which will phase out fossil fuels at least in the near future and perhaps ever.

PS: I don't like fossil fuels, I don't like the pollution or the effect it has on the environment and I wish they could be replaced by something renewable, but I just don't like the chances of that happening.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Idk about Just Stop Oil, but as a someone from Germany, a country that has done what you seek to do, namely moving from 3rd world conditions to 1st world conditions by the use of the cheapest energy source: fossil fuels, there is a sad secret i can tell you:
As per my quick and unscientific calcualtions, Germany used fossil fuels over a period of roughly 120 years to bring ~80M people from 3rd world conditions to the current level, emitting roughly 80bn tonnes of co2 and heating the planet by 0.145C.

If we apply this very rough calculation to 1bn Indians (blissfuilly ignoring the rising population of India), Indians will have to work tirelessly for the next 50 years at 2x our speed to do this. So most indians living today will likely never see that dream fully come true.
As a result earth will be heated to 2.95°C (current temp + heating by Indians), a temperature incompatible with boring 3rd world stuff like farming. If we add the african continent (>1.2bn) to the mix (they also want to achieve this, i asked them), it's more like 5°C.

In the end, Indians will have to decide: Do you guys want to want to have your grand-children drive cars, or do you want that your children have stuff to eat.

Here in Germany the people have already decided: We want to achieve a ratio of peope-to-cars of 1:1 (as God planned for us) (We are at 0.583:1), and for that we are sacrificing our grandchildren's cravings for food (and your grandchildren's too). But that is ok, because they are not born yet, so we can not hurt them. And also: Food is so boring.
If we fail, and someone forces us to abandon our ways and do koombayah without cars and with renewables (idk that's Indian i think), we will just say we did not know that co2 was harmful and that we just did what our boss ordered. Worked for our grandparents, will work for us.

I already know what Indians will decide, for they are just like us: You will choose the cars.

Peace to India, and remember: We are the good guys, we knew nothing, we just wanted to be happy (life is not worth living without a car).

May contain large amounts of sarcasm, sry for bad english, i'm in a hurry.