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672
Germany is now deporting pro-Palestine EU citizens. This is a chilling new step | Hanno Hauenstein (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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Germany has recently taken a chilling new step, signalling its willingness to use political views as grounds to curb migration. Authorities are now moving to deport foreign nationals for participating in pro-Palestine actions. As I reported this week in the Intercept, four people in Berlin – three EU citizens and one US citizen – are set to be deported over their involvement in demonstrations against Israel’s war on Gaza. None of the four have been convicted of a crime, and yet the authorities are seeking to simply throw them out of the country.

The accusations against them include aggravated breach of the peace and obstruction of a police arrest. Reports from last year suggest that one of the actions they were alleged to have been involved in included breaking into a university building and threatening people with objects that could have been used as potential weapons.

But the deportation orders go further. They cite a broader list of alleged behaviours: chanting slogans such as “Free Gaza” and “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, joining road blockades (a tactic frequently used by climate activists), and calling a police officer a “fascist”. Read closely, the real charge appears to be something more basic: protest itself.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Yes, following the rules everyone agreed on is lived in a rather inflexible way. If you think about it though, that’s democracy.

I would say that's a veneer of paternalism on top of a foundation of democracy.

The people's vote is never precise. It gives broad direction to those who govern. Politicians are trusted representatives of the people to act in their best interest, but they're not told precisely what to legislate on (unless you're Swiss and live in a direct democracy). They can inact things which are inline with the people's wishes, and they can get it wrong.

If the people behave as is the legislators are always right because they were placed there through a democratic process and there is never any push back, then they've surrendered a large part of their agency. If the people just obey rules without question, their government is now their fixed term authority figures. The government knows what is right, and the people should just follow along.

Talk to a Frenchman and he will be very clear that government serves the people. Not the other way around, and that sometimes you have to break the rules to remind those in government who is in charge. Bastille day is celebrated to make sure no one forgets.

I think Germany has the wrong mindset on this point.

Edit: I also think that "Never again" has become "Never again shall we see the Jewish persecuted" rather than "Never again shall we allow a holocaust to befall anyone". If Germany has truly learnt the lesson they should recognise that any country can perform evil. Even those that have been wronged in the past.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Oh I think in Germany it’s actually a huge problem that no one really feels like they are represented by anyone in the government, even the party they voted for. It’s the biggest reason the AFD is so popular: People wanted an alternative to the status quo, no matter what it is. Because they feel like "die da oben" (like "they up there") have always decided against the interests of the average guy. So actually, mistrust in the government is the cause of the AFD, not its solution.

In my comment I was actually not even thinking about the politicians, just the "majority" as in more than 50% of people. Not the current majority in parliament or anything like that.

Germany actually has a pretty big protest culture, at least I see them so regularly that it’s a very normal part of public life.

But many people are either too content with their life to complain or even be interested in something else (you could also call it lazy and ignorant tbh), or they are so disillusioned that they don’t believe they could ever change something. It’s the same in most western countries to be fair.

I absolutely agree with you about what we should do in regards to Israel, and I think most people in Germany actually also do. But what would happen on the international floor if Germany suddenly started saying we should arrest Israel’s top politician, stop supporting their "defense", and openly accuse them of genocide? It’s an honest question: Do you think we could? Without the whole world scolding us to not forget our history? I personally think Germany doesn’t even have the freedom of choice in this topic, no matter what we as a country think is right.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

But what would happen on the international floor if Germany suddenly started saying we should arrest Israel’s top politician,

I think telling Netenyahu that he's safe to travel to Germany because they won't enforce the ICJ arrest warrant is a horrendous, terrible piece of international PR. Of course Germany should arrest him if he comes to Germany. He has an arrest warrant outstanding on him to stand trial for war crimes. Since when is Germany a place for people to evade justice.

Germany should be seen to respect the rule of law. Not tell the ICJ it has no jurisdiction and harbour someone wanted on war crime charges. Let the international court take that problem away from them. It's not on Germany to decide. That's the courts job through due process. If he's not guilty, let the court make that decision.

Anything else is German arrogance.

stop supporting their "defense",

They can limit their support to only non-aggressive aspects. Don't supply funds or weapons. Supply medical aid, infrastructure support, etc and do the same for Gaza. Be on the side of the innocents caught up in the violence.

and openly accuse them of genocide?

Friends tell friends when they're in the wrong. Friends tell friends when they're acting irrationally through anger, fear and hatred. This is especially true if that friend has been there themselves as they can offer a perspective others can not.

To own your history is to show you've learnt from it. Germany is acting more like they have a debt to repay, but there is no amount that can be repaid. You can only internalise the facts, learn the lessons and act in a way that shows that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Again, I agree with everything above, I also think Germany is doing the wrong thing. In your last paragraph you say exactly what was my argument: Germany acts like it has a debt to repay. I can say from the perspective of a German that that is exactly what everyone here feels like is expected of us. Eternal atonement. Repaying what cannot be repaid. This has never changed since Germany lost WWII.

You have to consider that Germanys position regarding international relations is unique. The allied states gave us back our freedom not under the condition of being friends with Israel, but essentially owing a debt. Nobody ever let us forget what would happen if we "got out of line" again.

That is not only true on the level of international politics, but also in everyday life. When you travel to the US, people will straight up ask about the Nazi-Autobahn or whether you are a Nazi yourself. In Poland, people just might be a bit more unfriendly to you because of what your country did to theirs. In many places of the world you can buy "history pieces", from SS emblems to signed copies of "Mein Kampf". The whole world still kind of thinks of the Nazis when they talk about Germany, and if its even just 1% of what they think, it's still there. Like, no offense taken, but I don't know about any other country in this position. Russia, the US, Great Britain, France, even Japan or Italy. I don't think any of these countries' citizens get asked uncomfortable questions about their countries past when on vacation. Their children do not grow up in the knowledge that they will have to bear the sins of their country, and put them on their children too.

So, Germany accepted this role, these expectations, and does its best to keep to that. Nobody here thinks it would be internationally accepted if we "emancipated" ourselves from this duty. I think many Germans want to, at least in my social bubble. But do you think we could, without any repercussions?

I think what we need is absolution, forgiveness, a new beginning with no strings attached. A real, equal friendship between Israel and Germany. Trust. Otherwise we will just stay paralyzed by our infinite moral debt. I don't think this will happen in our lifetimes. Not with the current Israel, the current US, the current Germany.

TL;DR: I wanted to give an perspective on why Germanys position is kind of unique in this world. It is one of the biggest economies, a sovereign state, but still not free in decisions regarding Israel.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

I get where you're coming from. It's a hard legacy to inherit, but honestly most European countries have terrible events in their past. Germany's is just the most recent.

It's sad that travelling as a German is so awkward. Americans can be ignorant jerks, so that doesn't surprise me much. Few of them know how mainstream Nazi thinking was there before they entered the war. They treat us British as occupiers that they had to kick out, rather than the ancestral home of their founding fathers. Best to brush them off.

With many other places WW2 kicked off a series of occupations that only finished with the fall of the Soviet Union. It's still raw.

I think what we need is absolution, forgiveness, a new beginning with no strings attached. A real, equal friendship between Israel and Germany. Trust.

There is no absolution. There's just time.

(Germany needs a good therapist)

You're focusing on Israel as being the answer. Israel is not the Jewish diasporas. What Israel wants is not the same thing as what the Jewish people want. What about all the Jews around the world that see Israel killing in their name and are disgusted by it? They then see Germany by Israel's side?

Ukraine, on the other hand...defending a nation against a clear aggressor. A foreign policy slam-dunk, yet it's France and the UK taking the lead.

Be a rock. Be solid. A good world citizen. Be worthy of the world's trust and then you will be trusted.