this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2025
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Do you understand the difference between capitalism and commerce? Using money for trade isn't what makes capitalism what it is. Capitalism is, from wikipedia, "An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market" Capitalism means that I can own something I have nothing to do with and you have to pay me for the privilege of using it. When that thing is housing or food or medicine then I own you unless you want to die.
Capitalism means taking from the worker and giving to the 'owner'. The problem is that work is real and ownership is a made up concept.
The more you learn about it the more you'll understand how evil it is, I promise.
I think your whole first paragraph is just posturing, maybe i did speak incorrectly, i dont care.
In your economic system, if I make a machine that makes something, and sell it to a guy, what happens to that machine if what it makes is important or valuable?
Your question doesn't make sense. Try rewriting it a little clearer.
Try being less dumb? Other people have already given answers so it cant've been too hard.
How are you making your machine? Does it literally create something from nothing? Why would what it creates have any value if it can be infinitely easily produced, even if important? If it obeys the laws of physics, why would you be able to compete with large, mass scale industry as a single person?
Your question largely doesn't make any sense.
No, you just decided my machine must be useless, because if it it useful, you've gotten my point.
You dirty Commie.
Please elaborate on what you mean, your thought experiment made no sense. And yes, I'm a Communist, correct.
No, I wont elaborate, yes it does. And you aren't a communist, you just like the idea, like the history repeating idiot you are.
How was saying you arent a communist pro-?
Seems more like a dodge for you to avoid making an argument, but you do you. Don't know what you mean by claiming I'm not a Communist, either, who counts as a Communist in your eyes?
You practice communism? You subsist from a communist system solely?
Considering Communism as a Mode of Production refers to a relatively far-future, fully publicly owned global economy, humanity hasn't reached Communism and thus by your definition nobody has ever been a Communist. This, of course, isn't true, a Communist is someone who generally follows Communist ideology and wishes to bring about Communism.
This is just a non-sequitor no true Scotsman, and seems to be deflection.
Call it a deflection if you want, I call it being correct.
Would you rather me identify as Marxist-Leninist? That's the specific type of Communist I am.
Now that we have presumably gotten through that part, I'm entirely down to talk about whatever it is your machine example is supposed to prove, if you're willing to elaborate more on what your hypothetical is for.
Bravo on showing such respectful and good-natured civility towards someone who is undoubtedly a troll. I applaud your restraint. However, I think you entertained their obvious bad faith arguing for far too long. It's quite clear that they are hostile towards communism and are being deliberately combative and insulting to try and get a reaction out of someone. Unfortunately, as the Reddit floodgates begin to burst, I am sure many more trolls and hostile reactionaries whilr be flooding Lemmy for the forseeable future. Stay strong, comrade <3
Thanks! And for what it's worth, I'm 100% aware, they end up serving as a great springboard for other onlookers, who may change their mind. I've had people DM me saying as such, which is why I keep doing it. Thanks though, comrade!
That's actually a great strategy. It is perplexing to me to see the incivility of common conservative discourse online with other people they percieve as being "left wing" that others who read such exchanges could see anything other than it being childish and crude, especially when the other party is participating in a respectful manner. For myself, I don't resort to using incivilty against incivility but end up concluding that it's a waste of my emotional stamina to continue a discussion where one side insults and denigrates me as a matter of course. I'll keep your idea in mind next time I encounter such a time. Keep doing the hard work ;)
Thanks! I've been doing it for over a year now, so I have a good bit under my belt, haha.
Well, I appreciate the primer you linked in this thread. I was already reading Blackshirts and Reds, but now have some other material to read in conjunction with it. Take care, friend <3
Oh, thank you so much! Feel free to leave feedback, and if you use the comlib ebooks, a comrade here makes them and maintains the site, fae does a great job!
Take care, friend!
🫡
We both know if my machine has any value, it'd be taken away from me. That's really all I need to know.
I don't really agree with that. For it to have Value, it would need to be socially necessary, and fulfill a role not already better filled by other machines.
Where are you getting the materials? What time are we talking about, early Socialism, late Communisn, somewhere in between? The answer would change depending on the level of development of the productive forces.
I know you don't agree, that's why I think you're wrong.
Communism is a lovely idea, I support the goals you want it to achieve, and I'm sure there's a species out in the universe that would function quite well with it. Not Humans though, too greedy, too vein, too convinced they are right.
And maybe you think your better and it wont happen with your particular brand, but I know it will, it'll end in suffering like the rest.
I support Capitolism because so far it has allowed more humans in history to thrive than ever before, and I don't need a better answer than that.
Exactly the type of reply I'd expect.
Hello, different person here. It's understandable that you're confused by this tbh, but there are real proposals.
Broadly, there are two basic suggestions:
It's not one or the other and they're often combined.
It isn't fair for a king to control an army and do what he likes with it, that's dangerous. The army has to be controlled by the people of the nation. But, if you and your friends want to privately own guns, that's fine. So long as you aren't organising into a militia, it does little harm.
Critics say, likewise: if your machine is small, who cares. But if it's sufficiently powerful, if it could concentrate wealth and power in your hands, create mass unemployment (maybe even allow you to wield military): that's harm. A machine like that should be controlled by the people.
I'd kill myself and burn the machine before I let a damn Commie take it away.
Hey, comrade, good comment! I want to offer that in my experience, Principles of Communism is clearer and more concise than the Manifesto, for someone entirely unaware. I also have an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list I keep for easy sharing.
ok commie
Yeah idk I removed those because it's not a very good introductory text imo.
I don't really get it, are you calling me a commie in a deragatory way and downvoting me after you tried to spread Communist theory? I'm confused.
I'm some kinda new-wave radical centrist, can't call myself one after reading your big book. I believe in a lot of the criticisms and measures, but I think LTV & Vanguardism are the literal dumbest shit ever. But good luck with them, and thanks for taking an interest.
What's wrong with Marx's Law of Value, and what's wrong with the concept of a Vanguard? What "big book" are you referring to, Capital, or the Manifesto of the Communist Party?