527
‘The gesture speaks for itself’: Germans respond to Musk’s apparent Nazi salute
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 22 Jan 2025
527 points (97.5% liked)
World News
39757 readers
3132 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Because relevant is not where it is done, but whether it is suitable to disturb the public peace in Germany. So it takes effect in Germany and if the prosecutors would choose so, they could charge him in Germany and if that leads to an arrest warrant, it could be executed here too.
To conceptualize it, think of online scamming. If someone in India is scamming eldery in the US, the US would also prosecute it, despite the perpetraitor being abroad.
Your analogy doesn't work, since that is a crime that involves a us citizen. Moreover us claims jurisdiction of anyone all over the world uses usd.
With the heil we have a "victimless" crime that takes place in the other country and doesn't involve anyone who is German (or uses German currency).
This is comparable to Poland wanting to prosecute people who go to have abortions abroad. Or Texas trying to prosecute people going for abortions to other states. This is just not how jurisdiction works.
This has been part of a legal discussion over the past twentyish years, as the Internet allows for people to do hate speech that is prosecutable under German law from outside Germany, but targeted towards a German audience.
The English Wikipedia entry does not include the section about this issue, however the German one does. Maybe you could pass it through a translator of your choice. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung#Anwendung_auf_Auslandstaten_(Strafanwendungsrecht)
Basically the Bundesgerichtshof (federal court) which is the highest instance below the constitutional court used to rule it as sufficient, when the hate speech can be available in Germany. In 2016 they changed this opinion, saying that the possible availability in Germany does not constitute a success of the act and hence it cannot be considered part of the suitability of hate speech committed in another country. Because of that surrounding laws were amended in 2020 to specify that hate speech committed abroad can be prosecuted in Germany, if it was received by a wider audience (i think this is evident in the case of Musks Hitler salute) and the perpetrator is either a German citizen or has significant connections to Germany.
In regards to jurisdiction you cannot apply the concepts that work inside a federal nation state to how things work between nation states.
Poland could pass a law to prosecute abortions done abroad under their own jurisdiction, if such a law would be in accordance with other EU laws. If we take the UK instead as an example, they could absolutely do that. Now whether other countries would extradite someone accused under such a law to the UK is another question.
the main takeaway about things working between federal nation states is that they work like they work because there is no-one above federal nation states to tell them how jurisdiction works in such cases.
If powerful enough nation says that they have jurisdiction and no-one opposes them then they have it.
I fear that Germany might not want to anger the us.