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What does "stateless" exactly mean in the context of communism? (lemm.ee)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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(Reposted in this community cuz I didn't get any responses in the original community that I posted this under)

This is how I understand the communist utopia: Workers seize means of production. Means of production thus, start working for the proletariat masses rather than the bourgeoisie class. Thus, technological progress stops being stifled and flourishes. Humanity achieves a post scarcity-like environment for most goods and services. Thus, money becomes irrelevant at a personal level.

In all this, I can’t see how we stop needing a state. How can we build bridges without a body capable of large scale organisation? How would we have a space program without a state for example? I clearly have gotten many things wrong here. However, I’m unable to find what I’ve gotten wrong on my own. Plz help <3

Edit: Okay, got a very clear and sensible answer from @[email protected]. Unfortunately, I don't know how to link their comment. Hence, here is what they said:

Depends on how you define “state”. IIRC, Marx drew a distinction between “state” and “government”, where the former is all the coercive institutions (cops, prisons, courts, etc). In this framework, you need a “government” to do the things you refer to, but participation in that government’s activities should be voluntary, without the threat of armed government agents showing up at your door if you don’t comply.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's the question. At what point is a society with democracy, laws and a police still an anarchistic, stateless society?

To me this quickly overlaps with a libertarian democracy with direct democracy on the local levels, just with a different name. It's kinda scary to me how quickly the left and the right converge here.

Post-scarcity is a nice concept, but that will never happen. Many countries in Europe are effectively post-scarcity if you only consider basic needs.

Here in Austria, for example, we have a thing called "Mindestsicherung" which anyone is eligeable for if they are an Austrian citizen or have lived here for >5 years if they earn less than €1050 a month (median income is €2240). What happens then is the state pays them extra money so that together with their income they earn €1050 (even if you have no income at all). Then you get a flat in public housing and they pay for that too. Also you get free public transport passes, don't have to pay a TV license and get a free basic phone and internet contract. You even get a vouchers for clothing if you need new clothing.

Living, food, clothing, mobility, communication and internet are all taken care of. That's post-scarcity on the basic level.

I have a good friend who suffers from severe depression. He's been living off Mindestsicherung for the last 10 years. He doesn't have a lot of money but enough to go around and still have some money left for hobbies.

Still capitalism is alive and well here with only a low rate of long-term unemployed people. Because people don't only work to save themselves from starving, but because they want a higher living standard and more cool gadgets. So for money to not be important, everyone would have to have everything that they can think of.