this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
259 points (98.5% liked)
Programmer Humor
32571 readers
130 users here now
Post funny things about programming here! (Or just rant about your favourite programming language.)
Rules:
- Posts must be relevant to programming, programmers, or computer science.
- No NSFW content.
- Jokes must be in good taste. No hate speech, bigotry, etc.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Electrical Engineering really is a no-frills field; you either can do it, or you can't. Our only testing methodology is this: if they know what they're doing, they'll pass and do well in the major. If they don't know what they're doing, they'll fail and rethink their major.
Knowing what they're doing is the important part. If it were the case that genAI chatbots helped in that regard, then we'd allow them, but none of us have observed any improvement. rather they're wasting time they could be using to progress in the assignment to instead struggle to incorporate poorly optimized nonsense code they don't understand. I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations like:
"Why doesn't this work?"
"Well I see you're trying to do X, but as you know, you can't do X so long as Y is true, and it is."
"Oh, I didn't know that. I'll rewrite my prompt."
"Actually, there's a neat little trick you can do in situations like these. I strongly suggest you look up the documentation for function Z. It's an example of a useful approach you can take for problems like these in the future."
But then instead of looking it up, they just open their chatgpt tab and type "How to use function Z to do X when Y is true."
I suppose after enough trial and error, they might get the program to work. But what then? Nothing is learned. The computer is as much a mystery to them after as it was before. They don't know how to recognize when Y is true. They don't know why Y prevents X. They don't understand why function Z is the best approach to solving the problem, nor could they implement it again in a different situation. Those are the things they need to know in order to be engineers. Those are the things we test for. The why. The why is what matters. Without the why, there can be no engineering. From all that we've seen thus far, genAI chatbots take that why away from them.
If they manage to pass the class without learning those things, they will have a much, much harder time with the more advanced classes, and all the more so when they get to the classes where chatgpt is just plain incapable of helping them. And if even then, by some astronomical miracle they manage to graduate, what then? What will they have learned? What good is an engineer who can only follow pre-digested instructions instead of making something nobody else has?
If you are making them aware they will fail by not reading the documentation, then its surprising they would continue to put that off. Using chatgpt is different than only being able to use chatgpt. Then again i was a kid once and kind of get it. Maybe banning it is the better option, as you say.
I thought it was scary enough when instructors would do "locked down" timed tests with short/essay answers. I cant imagine students thinking they'd be fine using chatgpt for stuff theyll need to applicably demonstrate.
I wonder if the drop out rate will increase for colleges due to stuff like this, or if students are majoring in more technical stuff more due to llm overconfidence.
Thanks for your responses!