this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2024
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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (15 children)

It's kinda crazy to me that a sizable amount of people expect a perfect completely spotless candidate, or they don't vote and hand over the win to fascism.

In a rational world, Harris would have won without even doing a single rally, because the alternative is Trump and his cronies.

People generally don't realize that the only way to get an option to the left of the democrats is if Republicans no longer win elections. But with each "punishment", voters give the democrats, the Republicans' grip on power gets tighter and tighter, with more cronie judges, more gerrymandering, more voter purges, more ID rules, and more propaganda.

So, are the voters, or rather those who didn't vote, wrong? Fuck yes, for the reason that because of them, we now have Trump as the US president rather than him going to prison like he deserves. Of course they are wrong. How is that even a question?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (9 children)

People generally don't realize that the only way to get an option to the left of the democrats is if Republicans no longer win elections.

Absofuckinglutely wrong. The number of Democrats still buying this bullshit is astounding. THIS is why you lose so damn much.

No Democratic candidate has had more support from right leaning voters than Bernie Sanders in the last 30 years. Explain that with your model. It's not just about some smooth gradient from left to right and capturing the middle. We are in a populist age. The people are totally fed up with the status quo.

It's disruptors that win, not whomever captures the center of a spectrum that only policy wonks even care about. Anyone who's chief concern is left vs right is already a decided voter.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (3 children)

During Bill Clinton's first presidential campaign in 1992, he employed a strategy to appeal to moderate and right-leaning voters, which helped him secure support from some traditionally Republican constituencies. Here are key points about Clinton's approach and support from right-wing voters:

Centrist Positioning

Clinton positioned himself as a "New Democrat," advocating for centrist policies that appealed to moderate and conservative voters[2]. This included:

  • Emphasizing fiscal responsibility and balancing the budget
  • Supporting welfare reform
  • Taking a tough stance on crime
  • Promoting free trade

Targeting Reagan Democrats

Clinton specifically aimed to win back "Reagan Democrats" - working-class white voters who had previously supported Republicans[6]. He focused on economic issues and cultural values that resonated with this group.

"Triangulation" Strategy

Clinton used a strategy of "triangulation," which involved:

  • Distancing himself from traditional liberal Democratic positions
  • Adopting some conservative policy stances
  • Positioning himself between the liberal wing of the Democratic Party and Republicans[7]

Appeal to Suburban Voters

Clinton made significant inroads with suburban voters, including many who had previously voted Republican[2]. His moderate positions on social and economic issues appealed to this demographic.

Breaking the "Republican Lock"

Clinton's strategy helped him win states that had been part of the Republican "lock" on the Electoral College, including Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin[6].

While Clinton did not win a majority of right-wing voters, his centrist approach and focus on economic issues allowed him to peel away enough support from traditionally Republican constituencies to win the election. This strategy was controversial within the Democratic Party but proved effective in the general election[2][7].

Citations: [1] An examination of the 2016 electorate, based on validated voters https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/ [2] Controversy: Why Did Clinton Win? - The American Prospect https://prospect.org/power/controversy-clinton-win/ [3] In Their Own Words: Why Voters Support – and Have Concerns About https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/09/21/in-their-own-words-why-voters-support-and-have-concerns-about-clinton-and-trump/ [4] Basket of deplorables - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables [5] Governing in an Age of No Majorities: Bill Clinton's mission for a ... https://www.brookings.edu/articles/governing-in-an-age-of-no-majorities-bill-clintons-mission-for-a-second-term/ [6] Here's how Democrats have changed since the Bill Clinton era https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/democratic-party-dnc-bill-clinton-era-changes-rcna166669 [7] Bill Clinton: Campaigns and Elections | Miller Center https://millercenter.org/president/clinton/campaigns-and-elections [8] Don't understand Trump supporters? Remembering Bill Clinton ... https://kansasreflector.com/2024/08/03/dont-understand-trump-supporters-remembering-bill-clinton-might-help-you/

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That's an impressive writeup. Here is the problem. This is 2024, not 1992. Clinton's strategy has not aged well.

2008 - Hillary and McCain both ran a centrist strategy and lost to Obama who ran as a disruptor. Obama gets a mandate.

2010 - Democrats lose Congress and the mandate on a centrist strategy.

2012 - Obama almost loses to Mit Romney with both running centrist strategies.

2016 - Hillary loses on a centrist strategy against Trump who is clearly not a centrist.

2020 - Biden barely moves towards a disruptor position and barely beats Trump who should have been easily beatable.

2024 - Need I say it?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Out of your 6 examples half of them involve Democratic victories and you noticeably left 2018 and 2022 for not fitting in with your straw man

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I didn't have time to write a book. The examples I gave were more than sufficient to get the point across. A couple of minor exceptions don't disprove the rule. COVID and abortion dominated in 2022, and Trump looked more like the status quo than a disruptor in 2018.

The half that were victories are when the Republicans took the more centrist approach and Democrats ran as disruptors. Remember Obama's "Change!" slogan? Too bad he didn't mean it.

I note that you only used one election from over a quarter of a century ago to support your argument.

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