this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2024
150 points (98.7% liked)

politics

19096 readers
3159 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Hey, thanks for the long and thorough reply. I'm a bit overwhelmed :)

I think the reason this sounds reasonable is because a lot of the folks on the GOP campaign are longtime GOP folks, who know - or at least have certain long-held beliefs about - how this conventionally works.

This is exactly where my doubts come from. The whole piece has the air of “conventional politics“ but at the same time, from an outside perspective, it looks like the whole party has been thoroughly streamlined towards their leader in the past 8 years. And a cult of MAGA would probably not resemble much of traditional politics. It will be interesting to see if they can put a lid on it and return to politics that at the very least appears less crazy and unhinged in case Trump loses the election.

But this is not really how one wins. You need a broad coalition backing you to win - playing to a smaller base may make them feel good, but it's not going to bring enough folks backing you to the polls on election day.

True, but who is Trump going to convince to switch sides a week before the election? You might as well turn up the rhetoric to 11 and say the quiet part out loud, in order to convince your own base to vote for you.
This is a slippery slope of course, and the outcome could either be losing people with this radicalisation or making sure even more radical people who did not plan to vote show up at the booth. And to deter people from voting for someone else, out of fear. Also, even if it was possible for Trump to extend a hand and suddenly appear reasonable who would believe him after all that happened? I guess he doesn't have a choice but take the route of last-minute radicalisation. We'll see how this turns out. Personally I am so sick of seeing the orange conman dominate public discourse worldwide for eight years in a row. It is time to move on and I can only hope the majority of Americans has had enough too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Wanted to add - not directly related to the above article, but kinda confirming the general environment:

"She hit me the other day," Trump said. "I was going to say to my people, 'Am I allowed to hit her now?'"
"They said, 'Take it easy, sir,'" Trump said.
"Well, what do you mean?" Trump replied to himself. "She said bad about me. I can't hit back?"
The conversation continued with Trump's imaginary staff pleading with the former president to "just relax."

This is from https://www.rawstory.com/michelle-obama-vs-trump/ but it's a series of direct quotes from the guy himself.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago

Hey, thanks for the long and thorough reply. I’m a bit overwhelmed :)

Yeah, I think we all are at this point. It's been a tough election year for everyone.

This is exactly where my doubts come from. The whole piece has the air of “conventional politics“

I can see how someone would see that. For me, the first thing that stood was how unconventional the candidate really is, even compared to his own, presumably super MAGA, team.

but at the same time, from an outside perspective, it looks like the whole party has been thoroughly streamlined towards their leader in the past 8 years.

It really does, doesn't it? Of course there's a major contingent that isn't still - ranging from those who are endorsing Harris to folks like Mitt Romney who believe in a post-MAGA GOP.

And a cult of MAGA would probably not resemble much of traditional politics.

So, we already know what it would look like. The guy is running for re-election, not for first-time election. The simple answer is that this guy went with folks like Rex Tillerson and John Kelly and H.R. McMaster in the first place because the pro-MAGA crowd, while enthusiastic, didn't have members who could fill in and do these jobs.

True, but who is Trump going to convince to switch sides a week before the election?

Well, certainly not me. SHHHHH, you don't tell him either!!!

You might as well turn up the rhetoric to 11 and say the quiet part out loud, in order to convince your own base to vote for you.

Except they were already going to turn out for him no matter what happened. So he didn't need to do that to convince them to get on board - he would have been better off listening to his more traditional advisors and keeping himself restrained to maintain the broadest possible coalition.

This is a slippery slope of course, and the outcome could either be losing people with this radicalisation or making sure even more radical people who did not plan to vote show up at the booth

.. and vote for the other candidate (Harris).

Yep, fortunately, he couldn't do he couldn't restraint himself, and hopefully not only the US but the whole world benefits when he loses - exactly for the reasons you state above.

It will be interesting to see if they can put a lid on it and return to politics that at the very least appears less crazy and unhinged in case Trump loses the election.

Spoiler alert: This won't happen. At least not right away. This isn't the first time - what we saw back in Jan 2021, we have every reason to expect again, and zero reasons not to.

And to deter people from voting for someone else, out of fear.

Sadly, I am seeing on the news that this may already be happening this election, regardless.

Also, even if it was possible for Trump to extend a hand and suddenly appear reasonable who would believe him after all that happened?

So the point of the article, or at least the claim they are trying to make, is to state that the MAGA candidate was doing really well prior to these dog whistles, and at least some folks on his campaign along with some senior traditional Republican strategists attributed it to him having appeared reasonable and not crazy. Then afterwards, the dog whistles ruined things moments before reaching the finish line.

I guess he doesn’t have a choice but take the route of last-minute radicalisation.

Again, the article is claiming he did have a choice - and that he would have been better off not taking this late-minute route. As I wrote earlier this also seems to be backed up somewhat by the polling.

Of course, just because the article claims something doesn't mean they're right. A healthy dose of skepticism is reasonable and in this case, warranted. But at least parts of it seem plausible, based on what we know from living under him after he took office in 2017, along with the recent changes happening in the polls for 2024.

We’ll see how this turns out. Personally I am so sick of seeing the orange conman dominate public discourse worldwide for eight years in a row. It is time to move on and I can only hope the majority of Americans has had enough too.

Same here. Remember he lost the popular vote in 2016? So yes, the majority was likely already sick of him back them. And then he lost it by a larger margin in 2020.

I doubt he'd be running in 2028. He'd be older than Biden is now (who is already the oldest US President ever I think), and he'll likely be incarcerated then too if he's lost. (Remember, he's already been convicted of federal crimes, he is just awaiting sentencing - I think November 26 was one expected date).