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Biden has made it clear that his support for Netanyahu is unconditional and his words about peace are empty. Harris has made it clear that her position regarding Gaza is identical to his.
Sigh, here they come!
Aww. People who don't love genocide like you are all tankies.
A vote for Trump is a vote for genocide, guaranteed. You are insane if you support him over Harris and think that will do anything but makes things waaaaaaaaaay worse for not just Palestinians, but people in general. Telling people who opt for the lesser of two evils that they "love genocide" is full-on stupid.
And once again, I have already voted for Harris. She should stop supporting genocide even though it will make you sad.
EDIT: centrists downvote voting for Harris because all they actually care about is supporting the genocide.
We are literally in a thread where it's reported that Trump plans to let Israel do whatever the fuck they want, and you still want to pretend that Harris is somehow the worse choice.
I didn't say she was the worse choice. I voted for her already.
She should still change her stance on Netanyahu's genocide. So should the entire pro-genocide centrist wing of the Democratic Party.
Then I suppose we are in agreement.
Not sure why you are in here calling people genocide lovers for pointing that out though.
Lack of braincells does that.
"Harris should change her stance regarding Netanyahu's genocide" maps 1:1 with trump support, as far as a lot of lemmy is concerned.
People are so invested in their support for genocide that they can't imagine anyone opposing it in good faith.
I'm not sure how you can make a statement like that and then whine about people assuming bad faith, but you do you.
Get called a trumper enough, you stop giving centrists the benefit of the doubt.
Have you considered that they've encountered enough people who only ever seem to criticize Harris and accusing anyone who supports her of loving genocide, and suspiciously avoid saying a word about the other guy, that they, themselves, have stopped giving the benefit of the doubt?
I have. If "you must be a trumper" hadn't already been the go-to all purpose reply to all deviation from centrist orthodoxy since 2016, your argument might have merit.
Centrists claim trump support in anyone who wants the party to move leftward on any given issue. Centrists exhausted their benefit of the doubt long before the Netanyahu/Biden genocide commenced.
You're preaching into an echo chamber. If these (totally not bots) people can't read the writing under their noses, they won't be swayed by you. They'll wait until it's moot and then half-assedly say they were duped, à la, as we saw with Baby Boomers and Reagan.
They'll just blame the left like they did when Clinton lost.
Gotta keep the Progressive Boogeyman in the back pocket to wave around and scare the children
"They're going to give you... healthcare and union labor protections! OOOooo spooky"
What you say makes sense if you don't pay attention.
Cool. Where does she differ from Biden on the issue of Netanyahu's genocide?
EDIT: Silly centrists, downvotes aren't examples!
I didn't realize the choice was Harris vs Biden.
Oh yeah, I didn't know that because it isn't true. The choice is Harris vs the guy that says Netanyahu should finish the job, criticized him purely for letting his genocidal actions make it to the media, thinks Biden is being too tough on him, and has been in constant contact as a private citizen deliberately undermining peace negotiations.
Harris losing means Bibi's BFF wins. You'd have to be a pretty evil person with no sympathy for innocent Palestinians to want that to happen. Do you want that to happen?
My assertion was that Harris' policy doesn't differ from Biden's.
Silly centrist, arguing against things I didn't say because you can't defend your support for genocide.
I voted for Harris. Keep arguing as though I haven't just because I'm critical of the only policy centrists won't abandon at the slightest pressure.
I think the use of the term "unconditional" is fairly reductive. While any US government may continue military support regardless of Israel's behavior, some governments will be more effective than others in restraining Netanyahu or nesuring Gazan's receive appropriate support.
I feel confident that neither Biden nor Harris are calling Netanyahu and saying "do what you have to do".
So true, gut feeling has always been a more reliable barometer of facts than logic and reasoning.
Everyone raised around leaded gas knows that.
We have imposed no conditions. Would you prefer "enthusiastic"? Because it's that too.
Actually we have imposed conditions.
They were bulldozed.
There were no consequences.
Unconditional is apt.
Sure, but you have to acknowledge that of Harris and Trump, one of them would be more unconditional and enthusiastic than the other right?
Already have, plenty of times.
But that doesn't mean I don't get to gripe, and it doesn't mean that griping about it makes me a trumper.
It just looks like centrists just want people to fake happiness about being manipulated into voting for centrists' genocide.
Ok, that's precisely why "unconditional" is reductive. It reduces a spectrum of possibilities to a binary "conditional" vs "unconditional" and produces a "both sides are the same" argument.
Except, it really does though? Complaining about Harris is precisely what the republicans, trumpers, and Netanyahu want you to be doing.
You might not like Trump, but you absolutely are (apparently unwittingly) carrying a lot of water for him.
You don't give a shit who gets elected, as long as no one says anything bad about literal fucking genocide.
When the election is over, what will your new excuse be for why no one can be upset about genocide?
I'm at a loss as to how you could surmise that I don't care about who gets elected? Everything I've been saying is about who gets elected.
You can get as upset as you like about genocide any time, now or later, but maybe in the interim you can help avoid some suffering by not helping Trump get elected.
And you define "getting Trump elected" as "saying anything bad about genocide."
What's your excuse gonna be after the election?
No, I define attacking Biden and Harris over their support for Israel as helping Trump get elected.
You keep asking about my excuse after the election. To be frank, I just don't care very much about the situation in Gaza. It's sad, but it's out of my control, as is every other conflict presently taking place.
If no one mentions it, centrists will assume that genocide is a popular position with the broad approval of the electorate. Well, more than they already do.
That's a patently absurd statement. Who wants genocide for the sake of genocide? You're being dramatic.
Sorry. Forgot that genocide is the new normal. Carry on.
Hmm, needs more pouty.
Needs less gloaty. You're getting the only thing any centrist wants no matter who wins.
Trump is likely to win this election. That's not what I want, and certainly isn't what Gazans want. What are you doing to avoid that outcome?
I've already voted for Harris. I'm not going to shut up and be happy about genocide.
You realise you're discouraging everyone else from voting for Harris though right?
You don't want opposition to genocide and don't care a wet slap about anything else. This is a tiny platform full of entrenched pro-genocide centrists (like yourself). Nothing I say is going to convince anyone to stop supporting Harris, even if that were my intention. Or to stop supporting the genocide all centrists masturbate to.
Don't bother me with your complicity any more. It's disgusting.
Can you help me understand why you think people want genocide?
People may be ambivalent, yes... but you seem to believe people actually support genocide.
Sure. First of all, Republicans want genocide and Netanyahu wants genocide. These are both givens.
The thing I've seen that convinced me is how quickly centrist Democrats give up on every other issue, and how devoted they are to maintain the support for genocide at all costs. This is where they grew a backbone. This is their hill. They're willing to risk democracy itself rather than budge so much as a Planck length on this one issue.
And express the slightest displeasure at how Democrats have deferred leadership to a right-wing genocidal despot an ocean away, and centrists immediately scream that you're a Trumper or a Russian.
You haven't helped me understand why you think people want genocide. Not even a tiny bit.
Don’t bother with them. They do this shit all the time.
It's like an emotional fixation with the word "genocide". I have a morbid fascination with that frame of mind. Like what is the compulsion to believe everyone around you is evil? In any case, I don't think this person is capable of helping me understand that.
You didn't read my comment and never intended to, then.