this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
5 points (77.8% liked)

World News

32317 readers
789 users here now

News from around the world!

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

You are so far right that you call anything and everything to your left astroturfing. You've been in a bubble for so long that it's a culture shock when you meet actual leftists.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Oh, yes. Actual leftists that somehow support every action of a particular nation. Actual leftists who don't mind government control of information and gives incentives for supporting them publicly. Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to. Yep, totally sounds like actual leftists to me...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Actual leftists who don't mind government control of information

Yes, actual leftists. I'm going to quote to you some Marx. This is from Chapter 2 of the Communist Manifesto which is basically a 30 page pamphlet, I suggest you read it. I want you to pay particular attention to number 6.

The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

  1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

  2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

  3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

  4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

  5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

  6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

  7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

  8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

  9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

  10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.

As you can see, nothing here is at odds with that.

Actual leftists that are ok with some people being removed from society because of the groups they belong to.

What groups? If you're about to use Adrian Zenz as a source you are a joke. If you're instead claiming that working to abolish the existence of the bourgeoisie is a bad thing you are a clown.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You didn't just dunk him, you folded him into a ball and threw him into the sun

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I don't understand how people don't understand that control of the means of communication in the hands of the proletariat is a MUST to create a DOTP. Who the fuck do they think owns the media? The proles? Fuck no, the bourgeoisie own the media. It's ALL their media.

To empower the proletariat in the transitionary socialist state you MUST remove the advantages of the bourgeoisie. This is one of the biggest of them.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Must?

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries

Also note this part:

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production...

Notice, "in the beginning." Is China socialist or not? It is not the begining. The need to control the means of communication, as well as most of the rest of the goals, is to gain power over the bourgeoisie and place the power into the hands of the people. The means of communication must be seized in order to empower the people to communicate without their interference. How is the control that China has over communication providing for that and not the bourgeoisie itself controlling the media to prevent the people from communicating?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Socialism is the transitionary state between capitalism and communism. It exists in a state of warfare between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie.

We are very far away from defeating capitalism and such measures will remain in place until we have defeated it globally. What the fuck are you thinking? "Yes I want to give billionaires the ability to own media in my proletarian state so they can spew garbage propaganda until their counter-revolution succeeds". Are you out of your mind? What exactly do you gain from this? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. All you are advocating for is empowering the bourgeoisie to crush and re-exploit you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ah, yes. China is definitely trying to defeat capitalism globally by opening and expanding special economic zones. If anything, China has become more capitalist (because it makes the current bourgeoisie who control the "communist" government more money). Xi Jinping seems to have an estimated value of at least $1 billion USD. He's not of the working class. He's from the political class.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes. It is. Your lack of understanding about what their tactics are is a personal failure on your part to seek out the information, not a failure on their part to continue to pursue socialism.

Xi Jinping seems to have an estimated value of at least $1 billion USD. He's not of the working class. He's from the political class.

Xi Jinping grew up in a literal fucking cave. This claim is akin to all the estimates of Stalins worth that literally just decided he owned everything that the state owns. Your """source""" for this is capitalist finance blogs after you googled "xi jinping net worth" that don't break down this figure whatsoever. They all just claim it. It's literally the embodiment of:

You have no fucking standards of evidence at all just like you have no fucking standards for yourself.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)