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Your kids are gonna love it (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Soviets were de-facto abolished after 1936 (not due to the constitution itself, rather "by tradition"). While there technically were elections, in almost all cases there was only one candidate. The three of my grandparents that I grew up with (all proudly working-class - teacher, engineer and doctor, born in 1930s), never participated in elections with more than one candidate until Perestroyka (at which point the communist project was on its deathbed).

Note that I'm not even anti-USSR, it's still markedly better than the bullshit capitalist systems. There actually was plenty of workspace democracy, and some local democracy, but I don't think we should glorify it as some bastion of democracy. There still unfortunately was a kind of ruling class - the Party and MGB/KGB (but I should note that it was much easier for a working-class person to join their ranks than it is in capitalist "democracies"). Rather, learn from what it got right, and fix what it got wrong.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Soviets were de-facto abolished after 1936 (not due to the constitution itself, rather "by tradition"). While there technically were elections, in almost all cases there was only one candidate. The three of my grandparents that I grew up with (all proudly working-class - teacher, engineer and doctor, born in 1930s), never participated in elections with more than one candidate until Perestroyka (at which point the communist project was on its deathbed).

My understanding is that the Congress of Soviets was replaced with the Supreme Soviet, the democratic structure was changed but the Soviets remained, just shifted in form, and could still be used democratically, just not in all cases. A good analogy is that most local governments in the US run uncontested.

Note that I'm not even anti-USSR, it's still markedly better than the bullshit capitalist systems. There actually was plenty of workspace democracy, and some local democracy, but I don't think we should glorify it as some bastion of democracy. There still unfortunately was a kind of ruling class - the Party and MGB/KGB (but I should note that it was much easier for a working-class person to join their ranks than it is in liberal democracies). Rather, learn from what it got right, and fix what it got wrong.

I absolutely agree! The USSR was not perfect, but lots of it worked right as you said, and it was Socialist. I am primarily trying to combat blatant anticommunist mythology, not make a claim that nothing ever went wrong ever, which would be equally absurd. That's why I stressed reading Blackshirts and Reds, which dispels the mythology and takes a critical, nuances look at the USSR.

Thanks for sharing!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

My understanding is that the Congress of Soviets was replaced with the Supreme Soviet, the democratic structure was changed but the Soviets remained, just shifted in form, and could still be used democratically, just not in all cases.

I believe this is true, but I would argue that the fundamental change was that non-Party candidates were almost never allowed to run. As I noted, this is not due to a constitutional change but rather a change in electoral tradition. Anecdotally, as a result of this, all three my grandparents didn't feel represented by their deputies/delegates, and welcomed that part of the Perestroyka changes, when the rules were relaxed and more alternative candidates appeared.

A good analogy is that most local governments in the US run uncontested.

I believe this to also be a non-ideal situation (especially given the two-party system where neither represents the working class). However, aren't there at least party primaries, so that one can choose which candidate from the dominant party "runs" for the uncontested election? Whereas in USSR the candidates were chosen by the Party and not the electorate directly. (my understanding of the US electoral system is lacking, so I may be wrong here).

That’s why I stressed reading Blackshirts and Reds, which dispels the mythology and takes a critical, nuances look at the USSR.

Thanks for the recommendation! I've started to read it a while ago, and mostly agreed with the contents. I'll have to pick it up again.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I believe this is true, but I would argue that the fundamental change was that non-Party candidates were almost never allowed to run. As I noted, this is not due to a constitutional change but rather a change in electoral tradition. Anecdotally, as a result of this, all three my grandparents didn't feel represented by their deputies/delegates, and welcomed that part of the Perestroyka changes, when the rules were relaxed and more alternative candidates appeared.

That's a fair critique. The point I was trying to drive home, however, is that it was fundamentally Socialist, which I believe retained after 1936 as well.

I believe this to also be a non-ideal situation, but aren't there at least party primaries, so that one can choose which candidate from the dominant party "runs" for the uncontested election? Whereas in USSR the candidates were chosen by the Party and not the electorate directly. (my understanding of the US electoral system is lacking, so I may be wrong here).

Not necessarily. There is an illusion of choice, in reality it's largely run by the DNC and GOP. There are rare, minor upsets, but the ones that pose legitimate chance to shake things up are either heavily out-financed during the election, or are shunned by the party upon reaching some semblance of power. The electoral system of the US is a filter.

Thanks for the recommendation! I've started to read it a while ago, and mostly agreed with the contents. I'll have to pick it up again.

No problem! Thanks for your input, much more reasonable than the other commenter, and not just because we agree on almost everything.