this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The bias is justified. The left is correct. Markets don't create wealth without necessarily simultaneously creating poverty

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For more information, research "surplus army of labor", "primitive accumulation", and "accumulation by dispossession".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Primitive accumulation is a bad term. It works if you've read the theory behind it, but otherwise it sounds like someone saving up a bunch of money then starting a successful business compared to what it is which was colonial genocide, enclosure of the commons, and mass starvation as people were ripped from agricultural labor and cast into the factories and mines to work for feudal lords turned industrial capitalists.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree but in this context I'm literally telling them to read about it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I was just summarizing for the people who are too lazy to go read anything and will just stop here

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nuh, uh. Markets controlled by Oligarchs who spend billions to erode social safety nets do. A market socialist economy with strong regulations and systems like a UBI wouldn't create poverty, while still being a market (albeit a very different one to what we have today). Albeit I do think that for many things (like healthcare) having a market of any kind is just dumb.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Markets controlled by Oligarchs who spend billions to erode social safety nets do.

And where do these billionaires come from? Do they just spring out of the ground?
Oligarchs are a feature of capitalism, not a flaw.
A market with a UBI would simply increase rent by the UBI amount. Markets in capitalism exist to extract wealth, it is what they encourage. Thus they will support those that are best at extracting wealth, which leads to the creation of those billionaires.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I said market socialist. In a market socialist economy there would be no billionaires. Also housing is an absolute necessity, which means it shouldn't be governed by a market at all, no matter the economic system. Only things outside of staple foods, a roof over your head, utilities, drinking water, healthcare and other things absolutely necessary for your continued survival, can (not should) be governed by a market, and one that doesn't funnel money upwards.

Capitalism in any form is absolutely horrible and should not exist.

Also, creating artificial demand should be banned.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

There's already one long-ass discussion about market socialism in this thread, so I'm not gonna start another, but glad to hear your perspective!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

A market with a UBI would simply increase rent by the UBI amount

*Correction: an unregulated market with UBI would.

In a regulated market, those corporations can either follow the guidelines or fuck off the market.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Or just change the regulations

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Or they can enjoy the fact that they have regulatory capture and change the regulations, as has been seen historically.
For practical observance: Denmark pays a wage to university students. The function of this wage is to make sure the students can focus on their studies, instead of having to have a job that demands time from them, which would lower the quality of education.
Students also need housing, which the private sector provides in the form of "student housing", which requires you to be a student in order to live there. This "student housing" has a rent that is usually, approximately right around the student wage - thus meaning the student needs to take a job in order to afford things such as "food" and "electricity". This state of affairs occured despite regulations.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (29 children)

Well that's just bullshit. Markets have brought more people out of poverty than anything.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Capitalism literally requires poverty to even function.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Lib - "Markets make everything cheaper, which is good."

Leftist - "But if there is a labor market, won't that make labor cheaper?"

Lib - "Yes, and that is good."

Leftist - "How is that good?"

Lib - "It leads to more profits."

Leftist - "But why is it good to have more profits?"

Lib - "Because a good country is when corporations make profits, and the more profits the corporations make, the gooder the country is."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Love to spend insane amounts of resources on creating a phone that has the same tech and capabilities as all the other phones, but I can't just get access to their research and they can't just get access to mine.
Love to spend insane amount of time working up a cure to covid, but I can't share my research with others and they can't share it with me, yay this is awesome.
Love to spend insane amount of resources working out how to make people want to buy a sugary drink and then spend even more to make them want to buy my drink specifically.
Love to build empty houses and love to create 1.21 times more food than we need.
Love to do all this as the world is burning and people are starving.
Capitalism is the most efficient distribution of resources

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, but please don't say that too much, we don't want to carry water for the CCP

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think you got the joke

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah it completely wooshed over my head, I thought you were serious

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No it hasn't, socialist agitation in the teeth of capitalist opposition did that

Without it westerners would still be working 16 hour days seven days a week without any safety nets while dying of lead poisoning

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Markets have brought more people out of poverty than anything.

Yes, just like the Irish people who were "helped" by the free market in the 1840s. Or the Indian people who were "helped" by the free market in the late 1800s. You might be interested in this book by the late, great Mike Davis which completely refutes your ideas with hard evidence that the free market can be used (and has been used) as a tool of genocide: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/7859

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

thinking-about-it You can't be poor if you're dead

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Wrong, that would be China, under the direction of the CPC denguin

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