this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2024
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Asklemmy

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Does one have to be an iconoclast or revolutionary these days to be validly left? I consider myself to be left of center, and very much in favor of progressive policies. (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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However I find myself being disagreed with quite often, mostly for not advocating or cheering violence, "by any means possible" change, or revolutionary tactics. It would seem that I'm not viewed as authentically holding my view unless I advocate extreme, violent, or radical action to accomplish it.

Those seem like two different things to me.

Edit: TO COMMUNISTS, ANARCHISTS, OR ANYONE ELSE CALLING FOR THE OVERTHROW OF SOCIETY

THIS OBVIOUSLY ISN'T MEANT FOR YOU.

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[โ€“] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If I had to pick a box, it'd be socialist, because Communism has been tried, and generally ends up with an oligarchy. I don't see anything wrong with owning property or earning money, as long as you aren't curb Stomping people below you to get it.

What Socialist is in favor of maintaining Capitalism in the long term? What do you mean by Oligarchy, and how does that not apply to Capitalists in your "Socialist" system?

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Basically the Nordic model is my viewpoint (popular or not on here). High nationalisation of the economy with some room for private enterprise. High taxes, esp. for the rich, High investment in social programs.

Throw in a shit ton of transparency and accountability

[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Basically the Nordic model is my viewpoint (popular or not on here).

I wouldn't describe that as Socialist, really, unless it was in the Global South and explicitly Anti-Imperialist, and even then it would still need to have a trajectory to move onto Socialism eventually. The Nordics themselves rely on brutal exploitation of the Global South to function, and are some of the most Imperialistic countries in the world.

High nationalisation of the economy with some room for private enterprise.

The issue in the Nordic Model is that historically, the Capitalist class has maintained dominance, and has slowly turned back previous concessions via state control.

High taxes, esp. for the rich, High investment in social programs.

Social Programs are fantastic, but in the context of an Imperialist country we must recognize the source of these Programs.

Throw in a shit ton of transparency and accountability

Would be nice, but extremely difficult with a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie.

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm not totally well versed in global politics, tbh. Exploiting people is wrong no matter how you slice it; I wasn't aware of the exploit of southern nations for Nordic gain.

Maybe I am a confused liberal as one commenter mentions, but only in terms of what box I fit in. I know what I want. Equality and justice for all people. Freedom to earn a bit extra if we apply ourselves. Not so much extra that we are engorged ticks on society, amassing more money that you could ever spend in several life times.

I'm not willing to go with violence to achieve these ends, because that quickly turns into a feeding frenzy and 'justice' is indiscriminate and often in the hands of people who should not be administering.

My viewpoint is entirely irrelevant because my country is on the point of electing populists, and what I desire may as well be the fucking moon

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm not totally well versed in global politics, tbh. Exploiting people is wrong no matter how you slice it; I wasn't aware of the exploit of southern nations for Nordic gain.

Consider reading Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism. It might help clarify how Capitalism actually functions in the modern era.

Maybe I am a confused liberal as one commenter mentions, but only in terms of what box I fit in. I know what I want. Equality and justice for all people. Freedom to earn a bit extra if we apply ourselves. Not so much extra that we are engorged ticks on society, amassing more money that you could ever spend in several life times.

Stock-standard Socialist/Communist take, if you care.

I'm not willing to go with violence to achieve these ends, because that quickly turns into a feeding frenzy and 'justice' is indiscriminate and often in the hands of people who should not be administering.

Nobody is advocating for Leftists to randomly go sicko-mode. Revolution is a consequence, not an action.

My viewpoint is entirely irrelevant because my country is on the point of electing populists, and what I desire may as well be the fucking moon

The through-line of Leftism is organizing. Join a union, or an org! Try to build up dual-power.

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Thanks for the resource and general info.

Also, huge thanks for not beating me over the head with strong opinions, and acting more of a guide/talking rationally on a hot button topic on lemmy.

In return I offer Panopticon: his music is bluegrass influenced metal with heavy anticapitalistic lyrics, from Kentucky of all places.

https://open.spotify.com/artist/2Mz5qpR3WxbcBwZBsmraWE?si=1eWCmMzNT-WoogOy34mtUQ

Careful exploring his music. Some of it goes from light and relaxing to bludgeoning you with metal within the same song. I recommend his Kentucky album to start.

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for the resource and general info.

Also, huge thanks for not beating me over the head with strong opinions, and acting more of a guide/talking rationally on a hot button topic on lemmy.

No problem! I try to be more chill.

In return I offer Panopticon: his music is bluegrass influenced metal with heavy anticapitalistic lyrics, from Kentucky of all places.

I've listened to The Rime of Memory dozens of times, haha. If you like Metal, try Hostile Architecture by Glasgow band Ashenspire, and God's Country by Oklahoma City band Chat Pile.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

D...did we just become friends?

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Just chiming in to say Panopticon is great. I enjoyed the civility of the discussion here, as well.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Civility is how you change minds, provided you have a well thought out point of view

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The nordic model is not sustainable, and the same thing is currently happening to it (privatization and gutting) as happened to the US after FDR's new deal.

Not to mention the fact that welfare in these nordic states are mostly funded off the backs of workers in the global south, as taxes on imports from products produced by those poorly paid southern labor. Take a look at where most of the factories for H&M or Ikea are located for example.

As long as we leave capitalists in power, this exploitation will only continue to increase.