this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024
256 points (97.1% liked)
Linux
47929 readers
1178 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Could you elaborate on why you think this is the case? FYI, I've been using Fedora Atomic for over two years. So, please don't feel the need to explain me how it works*.
Inconvenient package management, manual theme installation and anything that involves changes to the system.
Thank you for the reply!
Fair.
I assume this is based on an experience with Kinoite? Am I right?
I'd argue "anything" is too harsh. But yes, there are definitely edge cases that are either very/too cumbersome or outright impossible to achieve on Fedora Atomic.
However, I'd argue that while the associated paradigm shift and learning curve do require some commitment to adjust to, it is a more sane way of running a system for most people.
This comment shows why I like Lemmy more than Reddit. Nuanced, acknowledging when the other person has a point without just yelling at each other.
Hehe. I agree that the community on Lemmy gives off more mature vibes. I suppose one should at least credit them for being idealistic enough to be on Lemmy rather than Reddit.
Thank you for spreading the positivity 😄!
If there's a flatpak, no problem.
Once you realize you do package management in distroboxes rather than the main OS (rpm-ostree etc), no problem, plus you have the AUR at your disposal.
So Ima go not fair, although there is something of an education gap atm.
I'm a big fan of Fedora Atomic. However, even I have to admit that knowing how to install packages through
dnfis simply more convenient than knowing and understanding the nuances betweenrpm-ostree, Toolbx/Distrobox andflatpak. And I haven't even delved intoujustandbrewthat are found on uBlue images.Furthermore, even if we would limit ourselves with what Fedora Atomic prescribes, we see the following inconveniences:
rpm-ostree; I know--apply-liveexists and I knowsystemctl soft-rebootexists. But still, if you have to resort torpm-ostree, then both the speed of update/installation as well as the need to reboot (or live on the edge with--apply-live) are inconvenient compared todnf.flatpak; It's inconvenient that I have to alias the installed package if I prefer sane naming conventions when accessing it through the terminal. Furthermore, stuff like the NativeMessaging portal not being available yet for sandboxed browsers and how that prevents any local password manager to interact with them (without hacking your way through; which, once again, is an inconvenience) is inconvenient.distrobox-exporthas to be resorted to for accessing these directly from your 'App Drawer' is an inconvenience.The fact that there's no centralized place for upgrading all of the above (unless you rely on an uBlue image) is an inconvenience.
I could go on and on, but these should satisfy in revealing some of the more obnoxious inconveniences.
Fair cop on the inconveniences, although I've found it fine after an adaption phase, coming from fedora it was lesser than hopping to a new distro. Hard agree on knowing the nuances being problematic, clarity and accessible education is sorely missing, certainly the steepest part of the learning curve.
I just run 'distrobox upgrade -all' in my Daily.service, didn't need quadlets (although after adaption I quite like them for containers now).
Though credit where credit is due. At this point, so well-beyond the adaption phase, I simply don't see myself use anything else. This is my home. Though I have to admit my serious interest in QubesOS (and the upcoming Spectrum OS).
Agree. I'm at least thankful that it's a lot better than it used to be. Like two years ago, when as a total noob to Linux, I decided to cold turkey quit Windows and installed Fedora Silverblue on my machine. Well..., those first two weeks were pretty traumatic 😂. And, back then, there was not a lot out there. Luckily, I found this article that helped me to grasp the basics. And it has been smooth sailing ever since.
That's pretty cool (and straightforward). Why didn't I think of that 😂? But yeah, quadlets FTW.
Everyone has an opinion on this. Won't argue with yours.
Fair.
Btw, was I correct on the following?
Yeah, I had that at the beginning, then added to my fstab
and then it works, kludgy, but sddm is apparently working on allowing themes in /etc, sometime soon.
Thanks for pointing that out!
Bazzite also includes an entry in their documentation in which they explain how theming on Bazzite works exactly.
No. I know that installing a GTK theme requires putting the files in /usr/share/themes that is not in /home. That's why I said it. As an advanced user I love customization and freedom so immutable distros are a no go for me (and for many people imo). I didn't even bother trying.
FWIW, by creating your own images (through BlueBuild or tooling offered by uBlue) you could bake themes directly into those folders.
However, I totally understand why you'd not feel compelled to do as such 😅. Especially if your current distro/system works splendidly.
Sometimes, placing it to
~/.local/share/themesworks as well*.This.
Ehh I prefer system-wide installation. I think it's a habit from times when installing an Android app with root (so the OS treats it as a system app) increased its performance.
Fair.
Interesting. Didn't know this was a thing.
Thank you for sharing those links, I have been struggling with making
rpm-ostree composego from a yaml to an ISO, these look like they might reduce the level of effort!You're welcome!
FWIW, last year, through what became BlueBuild eventually, I had my own image with all kinds of modifications within a weekend. And, perhaps most curiously, I was a total noob when it comes to containerfiles, github,
gitetcetera. So, if I somehow managed, then you should definitely be fine.Wish ya good luck! Consider reporting back 😉.
Sounds like you ramped up pretty quickly! Were you pretty familiar with the terminal beforehand or just jumping in?
I'm chronically unable to finish projects but with such a fantastic tool maybe this one is the one? I'll try follow up if get something going.
Yes, I did have some familiarity with the terminal.
I hope it will work out for ya!
Thank you for your consideration 😊!
Yeah, I had that at the beginning, then added to my fstab
and KDE themes with sddm components install fine now (most themes install fine into /home, does Gnome really not have per user themes?)
Essentially you can tactically make things mutable as needed, use sparingly, but maybe not even trying lessens your opinion, no?
Why would I use a system that isn't supposed to change if I want to change it? It's just not for me and I don't want to waste my time reinstalling everything. And my opinion isn't completely proven without trying but I have theoretical knowledge.
There's a bunch of benefits, atomic updates, intrinsic rollback, security of immutability, safe automatic updating and it goes on. Some things are not quite ready yet, e.g. things like sddm which should probably install themes to /etc (which they're working on), so as often happens in linux, workarounds ensue. Making one directory mutable does not destroy all the benefits.
Mister/miss, you're going too far with this advertising imo.
You're welcome to your opinion ;)
Can't you just use the Gnome App Store or whatever it's called?
GNOME Software but it only has Flatpaks which my machine can't quite run smoothly. It's weird that I use the GNOME ecosystem without Flatpaks though. Anyways I just use the AUR on my system that's based on Arch btw.
With an immutable system the flatpaks would be the way to go