this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2023
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It’s always weird to me when I see liberals espousing the sentiment that we need foreign workers, or else who will do all the shitty work we don’t want to do?
It’s just as disturbing and racist to me as the “keep them migrants out of my country!” Take conservatives generally have. Americans are fucked right up man.
To be fair a couple of states cracked down hard on illegal immigrants and millions of dollars of crops rotted cause there was no one there to pick em. The states reversed course pretty fast.
Americans are pretty lazy at this point, and I speak as an American.
Which tells me that American farms would rather watch crops rot than pay people a proper living wage.
That’s fucked up.
This is also true, but that true across most industry in America at this point.
If pay is even across the board than why would one person want to toil in the sun vs sit on thier bum and deal with angry customers. Most pick the angry customers...
Even when the more manual labor jobs do pay well, a ton of people quit after a day or two, granted they're usually younger people who didn't realize what the job would entail.
Nobody said pay should be equal across the board. We’re talking about exploitation of migrant workers here man.
I'm not saying that either I'm saying Americans are lazy and have no sense of work ethic and immigrants regardless of what they're paid (not that I want them to be paid anything but the fair wage anyone else should be entitled to) are a required part of our work force and I'm grateful for the work they do. We wouldn't have roads or building, or food. Some get paid well, some get paid shit. Im not a farmer so I can't tell you if they chose to let the whole seasons crop go to waste over paying others more to pick said crops, or if they just didn't have anyone that wanted to do actual work. From my narrow view, I have the tendency to think that no one wanted to work.
Honestly, I think I took your comment to mean something it didn't. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding.
It’s not lazy to not want to do back breaking labor for poverty wages.
It’s entitlement to think these companies should be able to abuse workers like that.
Farm work is a lot different today than it was 30 or 40 years ago. Back in the '80s and '90s, it wasn't uncommon for kids in rural communities to do farmwork like picking berries.
Fast forward to today and that would never happen. Farmers have very exacting standards and require very high productivity standards that only skilled adult laborers can meet. They're not going to hire kids or other Americans.
This reporter did a good job capturing just how fucking difficult farmwork is:
https://youtu.be/Yg3WFt72RM8?si=_P4GIFppISGNVvZU
There is no such thing as unskilled labor but this video shows not that Americans won't do farmwork but that Americans want to be paid more.
Americans do a lot of hard manual labor but it is labor that is generally paid much better.
What's so weird about telling the truth? That you're uncomfortable about it?
It's not like you can be an illegal immigrant and walk into an office building and go through the corporate HR process to get hired on a white collar job. The desirable jobs will mostly require proof of citizenship or a work visa. Therefore the illegal immigrants will be looking for the under-the-table work which is usually the undesirable jobs.
Well that certainly wasn't my intent in my statement, it was more just an observation that so many Americans are too damn entitled to do the work that others are happy to get paid for.
People would do it if they were paid properly to do it. We shouldn’t have to imperialize and impoverish other countries to the point that they have to make dangerous journeys to come to do shitty jobs (and when I say shitty I mean ridiculously underpaid) or else crops will rot. Getting mad at the people for not wanting to do these jobs is aiming your anger at entirely the wrong people.
Is working for more than slave wages "entitled" now?
No, but complaining about things not being done to your satisfaction when you're not willing to do the job yourself certainly is. It's bad enough how many people are disgusted by the idea that their food actually comes from dirt, but it's also pretty sad that these same people consider working on farms as menial labor not worthy of minimum wage when those workers are the ones actually putting in the hard labor.
Who's complaining about satisfactory work? The illegals do fine work. They do it for a low wage and without the protection of labor laws because they're illegal and have to take what they can get. Americans can get jobs where they are protected by labor laws and make more money, so they do. That's not entitlement it's common sense.
I’m a conservative. I want immigrants to come legally. We need to provide paths for people to come here.
Honestly immigrants tend to work harder and still believe in the American dream. I have more in common with the immigrants than I do most liberals. They don’t see America as failing, they seem as the land of opportunity.
My roommate is an immigrant. Works 14 hour days, 5 days a week. He loves what America has provided for him.
That's because they're new. Just wait until they've had the rug yanked out from under them a few times while someone tut-tuts about bootstraps.
He’s been here for twenty years. He made 500k last year. He’s a big advocate of pulling yourself up from your bootstraps. That’s his story as an immigrant from Mexico who had nothing and now has a good career.
More Americans could learn from immigrants and pulling themselves up instead of expecting things to come to them.
You know the phrase pulling yourself up by your boot straps was first invented to make fun of people like you? Lmao
And people like me don't care what people like you think. While you are trying to mock people, we are crushing it.
Good job buddy. Keep on "crushing it".
Someone is awfully judgy. He’s a traveling nurse. He goes from assignment to assignment.
I’m only at that house a few weeks out of the year. So I have no issue renting a room to a good cause.
How is that an own? I provide temporary living to traveling nurses.
That’s smart living. I’m there about two weeks every quarter. They want a home to live in. Works great for everyone.
If you think being successful is an own, then I own it.
Lol, no. Been here 20 yrs, pull in great money as a sr software engineer in the valley and I still think America is the land of opportunities and call it home. I started with 0 dollars in my bank with a simple part time job that would pay me $7.25 an hour at my local community college.
Sometimes, you actually do need to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and work hard to get to where you need to be. I’ve seen a lot of entitlement around me and people complaining without doing much of anything to fix it.
Complaining and not doing anything about it isn’t unique to the US. That said, America still offers a ton of opportunities for those looking to succeed, and there’s a reason why the American economy commands ~28% of the world’s GDP. All things considered and if this admin stays in office for another term, I see the opportunities increasing even further.
Americans and conservatives really are fucking idiots eh?
Show me where I said “Americans and/or conservatives are fucking idiots”.
You seem to misunderstand, probably because your an American conservative.
I’m calling you the fucking idiot, you fucking idiot.
And I gave you the benefit of the doubt and actually removed my insult calling you an idiot for making the dim witted comment you made.
You see the difference a decent education makes? Good job on assuming my political leanings, which btw are not conservative, so you’re wrong there as well.
Calling you a fucking moron is probably an insult to the term “fucking moron”, but let’s leave it at that so that your room temp iq can comprehend at least this much.
The entitlement is what is killing our country. People just want the nanny state to take care of them.
I grew up poor, and was told if I did X Y and Z i would be successful. I did those things. I was successful. I had liberal friends who were surviving paycheck to paycheck. I put them on the same plan and they gasp became successful.
It is why I love immigrants. They don't listen to people who say you can't be successful in America. They just come here and crush it.
My take is that it appears to be driven by mentality rather than whether somebody is an immigrant or not. People, immigrant or not who like putting in the work end up succeeding while those that complain or act entitled do not. It’s plain as day, nobody is going to give you a hand out so you have to work for it. Welcome to capitalism. It sucks, but get with it or you lose.
I’ve got successful immigrant and non immigrant friends and those that end up succeeding also end up being like minded. That said, I do think that, yes, immigrants more commonly have the “work hard or fail” mindset given their prior socioeconomic status typically ends up being unfavorable which serves as a catalyst for them.
I agree with entitlement becoming more and more common these days but that can also be attributed to people being generally more outspoken and having platforms to voice their concerns.
While I support living wages and single payer system. Until those happen, hard work is the path to success.
I’ve done well and I’ve worked hard.
Ive watched immigrants come and start businesses while people from here say there is no opportunity to do that here.
Socialism/communism isn’t the answer as everyone just ends up with less and not enough.
People need to realize they control the destiny and can chart their own path.
Agreed.
leaving?
I have no qualms about being a conservative. Also, Lemm.ee isn't a house.
Not sure you understand conservatism.
Anyways have a nice living in your mom’s basement.
I’m not going to have off topic debate with someone because they are butt hurt that others are successful.
You don’t like conservatives. Not the first time I’ve met a bigot.
As such the conversation is wasted time as you’ve already made up you mind. You just want to be the edge lord and as such I have to respectfully decline.
Why do you think immigrants wouldn't come legally if that was an option?
I do. I clearly said that.