this post was submitted on 24 May 2024
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Linux

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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 5 months ago (3 children)

I find most people don't know of the alternatives but they are open to change as they are unhappy with current options that they are aware of. I've talked with a few people that were surprisingly open to to trying Linux. They didn't know how easy it is to use and install but jumped on the opportunity as they were unhappy with Windows.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Changing to Linux means, people...:

  • need to have an understanding of operating systems, so they can think about alternatives
  • need to be aware of the actual alternative
  • need to be willing to learn something new
  • need to be willing to leave some applications or games behind
  • need to choose a Linux distribution
  • need the technical ability and understanding to actually download, flash and boot from boot system, install it and setup initial, such as root password and such

These are basic and trivial stuff for us, but most normies don't have this understanding and interest to go this far. And then it depends if they are happy and stay. Even if every PC manufacturer and distributor would offere the same PC with Windows and Linux, most would just choose Windows (probably). This is the current reality.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Such a hard agree. My wife won't even let me install Linux, which takes out the more technical aspects of the above.

She's just comfortable on Windows. Most people don't want to learn something new and even fewer actually care about privacy.

Edit: Us Linux users assume that if Windows gets bad enough people will switch to Linux, when we all should face facts that normies will much sooner switch to Mac.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

that normies will much sooner switch to Mac.

Rich normies.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sure, for the mac pro line with specs that us nerds care about.

I think some of those M1 mac airs are really affordable now though. For casual use it would be a good device for a tech illiterate person.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Or a mini.

I have an M2 mini I use for iOS builds, cheap enough for me to buy and stick in the rack to use for remote builds. I got that a year ago for $600ish iirc.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yeah man. Apple still screws people when it comes to ram and storage options of course, but the base products are actually pretty good for the money.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yep... It's permanently where it's at at purchase.

Which is fine, I don't store anything on there (Jenkins automations to build, local git repo on another machine, output goes to NAS), but it's ridiculous how much the upgrades cost.

If I didn't need a build target for iOS I wouldn't have bothered with it, that's for sure.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I might be biased running a NAS as well, but I'm not fussed about having a tonne of storage on-device. Yeah agreed it is bonkas how much they charge for that extra 8GB of RAM. Default should for sure be 16 by now.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Mostly yes but there's one other option that simplifies the whole thing: Chromebooks. They're actually pretty decent for someone who doesn't need much beyond a browser, a mail client, and a basic office suite.

Sure, they're tied to Google with all that entails but they can be a real option for someone like a senior who relies on relatives for tech support.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

I agree. Chromebooks are a viable choice for those who want a web terminal. I used one for about a year. Got the job done.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Something I've never checked for but...are there any linux installers that run from within windows? Shrink the windows partition, create a linux partition, populate it, install grub, and tell the user to reboot and choose linux? I think general lack of good ext4 fs support in windows might make things difficult, but you don't actually need to do that part from within windows. There could be a second installer that's triggered the first time they boot from grub.

I feel like a well supported installer like that would dramatically lower the barrier to entry. It could make dual booting windows a breeze for anyone who knows how to run an installer and reboot, which is what people actually want.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

This sounds awesome idea. Not sure if there is a technical reason why this could not be done. On the other hand, Windows already has WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux, is it still called like that?). All antivirus programs would probably go nuts. Windows itself is a restricted system and some things need to be done before booting into Windows. I assume if it was possible, then this would have been done before. At least I never heard about this. The best way is to have a preinstalled Linux on hardware.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Q4OS has an installer like that, but you have to change the boot order after installation, I don't think it uses grub.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

Nice, indeed it looks like it does! Wonder if that installer could be packaged and licensed in a way that more distros could use it.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Until something breaks, or doesn't have a GUI. The average user seeing a terminal means they will abandon it. And even if they are willing to handle a terminal to fix an issue, the toxic community members that flock to be the first to respond condescendingly to new users will turn them away permanently.

Linux communities have some of the most helpful users, but they also have people worse than a League of Legends game. And all it takes is one of them to turn the average person away forever.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

This was my experience years ago.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago (1 children)

... And then something happens and they want you to install Windows again.

As much as I like Linux, compared to Windows and Mac OS it's high maintenance. Once in a while, things will bork themselves. And you need to have at least a rough understanding of what's happening to fix it.

Also (and that's not a Linux problem per se) people seem to think if Windows breaks, MS or they themselves are at fault, if Linux breaks, that weird nerd and his hacker stuff are at fault.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I have to disagree, at least in my experience.
Windows causes more problems, both for my mum and myself.

Her only purpose of a PC is basically to open a web browser, answer some mails and plug in a USB from time to time. For her, Mint never made one single problem, except when the hard drive failed.
She really liked the "boringness" and the old Windows charme.

And for me, Linux never made any big troubles in general. When I used Tumbleweed, there were a few papercuts (e.g. graphical glitches, program freezes, etc.) due to the bleeding edge, but nothing major.
And since I use Fedora Atomic, I completely forget that I use an OS in general. I never have to update anything, I can't break my stuff, etc..
It's the most "boring" and user friendly OS I've used, even more than MacOS and Windows. Only Android/ iOS are better in that regard.

But I've never seen my OS just borking itself. If that should ever happen, I can easily roll back in a second and it will work again.

And you need to have at least a rough understanding of what's happening to fix it.

If you can fix Windows (which made way more problems after updates for me) then fixing Linux is way easier. And if you're an average person, then you go to a local repair shop and say "My PC broke" and they reinstall Windows for you.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Without fail, every Linux installation I had destroyed itself after a while.

Be it a full boot partition, some weird driver compatibility, etc, etc.

My Windows installations (granted, all work laptops) never destroyed themselves. Yes, some bugs here and there, but it worked well enough for home usage. You can't discount that.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Without fail, every Linux installation I had destroyed itself after a while.

User-induced trauma, poor distros.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

The fact those poor distros exist means yet another hurdle for the average user to switch to Linux

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Okay, but understand that from for example my point of view, your perception appears really skewed because my GNU/Linux installations have never "destroyed [themselves] after a while". Respectfully, I think that you project your Linux failures unto the entire ecosystem, based on issues that were unique to you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I've got the complete opposite to you. I'm in a household of 3 gaming desktops and 3 laptops, plus family who need help. I've been daily driving Linux for about a decade now and keep duel boot around just for Adobe products.

On all these machines, Linux hs been rock solid and never had issues that wasn't user caused. Windows on the other hand drives me crazy with how much it fucks out. I have next to no control over it. It updates when it wants. I have no control over what's updated. I hate the gods damn ads (and that's on Windows 10) despite running de-crappifying software. I hate how many errors it has and how long it takes t troubleshoot them. I hate that if the system borks itself enough, it's faster and less insanity inducing to just reinstall the whole os than try and fix it. I hate that Windows just gets progressively slower and laggier over time whereas my 6 year running Arch install was as fast as the day I installed it.