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‘Andrew Tate is a symptom, not the problem’: why young men are turning against feminism (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

75 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Teachers describe a deterioration in behaviour and attitudes that has proved to be fertile terrain for misogynistic influencers

“As soon as I mention feminism, you can feel the shift in the room; they’re shuffling in their seats.” Mike Nicholson holds workshops with teenage boys about the challenges of impending manhood. Standing up for the sisterhood, it seems, is the last thing on their minds.

When Nicholson says he is a feminist himself, “I can see them look at me, like, ‘I used to like you.’”

Once Nicholson, whose programme is called Progressive Masculinity, unpacks the fact that feminism means equal rights and opportunities for women, many of the boys with whom he works are won over.

“A lot of it is bred from misunderstanding and how the word is smeared,” he says.

But he is battling against what he calls a “dominance-based model” of masculinity. “These old-fashioned, regressive ideas are having a renaissance, through your masculinity influencers – your grifters, like Andrew Tate.”

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Women aren't the ones in charge of society and they never have been. It's not like there's a matriarch that's telling women "men are all coming to kidnap your children". That's something created by the literal government in the form of the Stranger Danger propaganda campaign and then spread by mass media. Women didn't do that. I hate to break it to you, but men did.

But it's also not your fault, just because other men did this.

You're really confusing liberal feminism with feminism as a broader movement. Liberal feminists love to individualize sexism and claim that the cause of sexism is bad individuals. That's an incredibly wrong headed idea that fails to actually address the root causes of sexism (class society) and instead just heaps blame onto individual men for being baddies. Sadly, because we live in a liberal society, liberal feminism has become a dominant ideology and so then men like you see the obvious problems and just assume this applies to all feminism.

And that's not your fault either. That's the fault of class society, again, which wants to atomize and individualize feminism so we don't build solidarity.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Women didn't do that. I hate to break it to you, but men did.

That's the problem right there. Feminism (our at least your brand of feminism) somehow removes women from society absolving them from any responsibility of the negatives they may be a part of.

At least in America the second most powerful group in society has always been white women so the idea that men have dictated all the negatives of American society is bullshit. How is it that men are responsible for 40% of slave owners being white women and 52% of Trump voters in 2016 being white women? It's 2024 at what point do we hold women responsible for still holding on to ass backwards gender roles and stereotypes when we have so much info that prove most if not all of it is bullshit?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

How is it that I can keep saying "it’s also not your fault, just because other men did this" and then you read this as "men are responsible"?

At what point do you realize that I'm saying you shouldn't hold individuals responsible for structural problems or blame sexism on the actions of individual people? I keep saying this over and over, but the root of the problem is class society and is not just bad people having bad ideas. The world historical defeat of women was the consequence of the invention of private property and the modern family, but men aren't responsible for that and neither are women. Men who invented Stranger Danger were products of their material conditions. These are just the material forces at work. You're doing this liberal thing where you individualize the problem and think you can fight sexism by stopping sexist people, but the only way we can actually stop it is by breaking the material conditions that reproduce sexist ideology.

Blaming women or men is unproductive. The problem, as I keep saying, is class society. As long as the reproduction of labor is relegated to women then both men and women are going to suffer, and that's not something that can be fixed by a individual simply not being sexist.