this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2024

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submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 6 months ago (2 children)

What's wrong with Briar? https://briarproject.org/

Censorship-resistant peer-to-peer messaging that bypasses centralized servers. Connect via Bluetooth, Wi-Fi or Tor, with privacy built-in.

I think the reason these apps don't take off is the compromises they make in order to work the way they do. When you do need them, you best hope you're able to get them and get others to use them as well.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Android only sadly

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

As I understand it, these kind of applications depend on being able to perform activities in the background, which is highly limited in iOS for battery efficiency reasons--and maybe for privacy.

Many years ago I was working on a project that shared connectivity details over wifi/bt, and iOS was troublesome also due to the application not being aware of the local bluetooth address.

Possibly similar issues impact other mesh networking applications on the platform.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

https://code.briarproject.org/briar/briar/-/wikis/FAQ#will-there-be-an-ios-version-of-briar

We're looking into whether an iOS version is feasible.

A typical iOS messaging app would use a push notification to wake the app when a message is received, but this exposes metadata to Apple's push notification service and the app developer's push gateway

If we don't use push notifications then the best Apple allows us to do is wake up every 15 minutes and check for messages. But maybe the sender won't be online when we check (their 15 minute intervals might not be aligned with ours - clocks aren't perfect).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

@xnx @KLISHDFSDF
s/sadly/naturally/
With Apple you get tracking and surveillance built-in. The Android world has clean custom-ROMS.
https://www.aalto.fi/en/news/keeping-your-data-from-apple-is-harder-than-expected
https://proton.me/blog/iphone-privacy
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/10/accused-raccoon-malware-developer-fled-ukraine-after-russian-invasion/

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

What about Session, the Signal fork?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Session has made some insecure solution surrounding important design elements like forward secrecy

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That is meshnet based

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (2 children)

And? It works on iOS.

I'm missing the point. Was it that systems like Briar can't work in iOS because they aren't mesh net? If so, why not choose one that does, like Session?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

For anyone considering Session messenger:

The Session developers dropped Perfect Forward Secrecy because it would be hard to work around it.

First things first, let’s talk about what we’re leaving behind: Perfect Forward Secrecy (PFS) and deniability.

Source: https://getsession.org/session-protocol-explained

In plain English, they dropped a security feature for their convenience to the detriment of their users' security.

For anyone unsure what PFS provides:

The value of forward secrecy is that it protects past communication.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_secrecy

The Session devs also claim:

Session provides protections against these types of threats in other ways — through fully anonymous account creation, onion routing, and metadata minimisation, for example.

Reading between the lines, we can interpret that as introducing security through obscurity, which is generally considered bad practice - https://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/656.html

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

The point is being able to communicate when the internet is shut off

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I'm a bit confused by the app and Mailbox app for being able to receive messages while offline separation. The normal app only supports live communication between two online participants? /edit: Looks like that is indeed the case.