this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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Complete nothingburger. What military capability do the Baltic states bring? Isolated geographical position, small countries with small armies and small economies.
So it's not a factor in the first place. But even if it was, Ukraine handily outranks Poland when it comes to providing capability. They have an extensive (largely state-owned btw) arms industry, very capable engineers, and, in case you haven't noticed, fighting spirit.
Last but not least they're punching above their weight in Eurovision. Oh wait that was EU accession, not NATO.
worse than that what they bring to an alliance is pretty much no extra money or anything else but also a significantly higher chance of getting into a war
frankly I'm of the opinions that everything east of Germany is a pretty cheeky imposition on Russias traditional standing in Europe. You can't just break all the old rules for operating in Europe and not expect consequences
Traditional standing, yes, as colonial empire. It may be cheeky but why would it be bad standing up against that?
You know what Russia could have done to prevent NATO expansion? Not invade Moldova, not invade Georgia, and deal with Chechnya in a manner that doesn't smell of genocide. Make sure that Eastern Europe doesn't feel threatened so that they don't feel the need to join NATO. Of course the Baltics, Poland, etc, joined, they don't want to repeat the experience of being a Russian colony.
And just for the record no I'm not actually a fan of NATO, or better put the US being part of the whole shebang. Only positive thing about that is that without Europe in the mix the yanks would likely be even worse.
they have that standing because they have the guns. They still have the guns so they still have the standing
those rules don't just exist for no reason they are to prevent war between the powers in Europe break those rules and you risk war. It doesn't matter what the Balkans and Poland think they don't have nuclear weapons
Oh yes Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine not being in NATO totally prevented war. How could I forget.
You're a hexbear, so presumably self-identify as being on the left. Which then leads me to the question of WTF are you pushing talking points of geopolitical realists, "there are players and there are chess pieces".
It very much matters what those states think because, as sovereign states, they enjoy freedom of alliance. To deny that means that you think it is all nice and proper for Russia to still treat them as colonies.
I don't want to be allied with them because they bring nothing to an alliance except liability.
Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine not being in NATO prevented war between Russia and America, Britain, and France. And that is the big war that can't be allowed to happen
this isn't a new phenomenon we are talking about the great game of empire and there are very good reasons why it was always the conventional wisdom to not mess with Russia over eastern Europe. If they are sovereign states then let them be sovereign states and deal with problems on their own
That wisdom is called appeasement and has failed again and again. Empires will empire, if you give them a finger they'll wait for a bit and then take an arm.
You seem to be completely realism-pilled. I have my issues with Kraut but watch this, it's good stuff.
If they are unemployed and homeless then let them be independent and deal with problems on their own. The fuck. And you call yourself a leftist.
I agree, the US should be forcibly disbanded by an international peacekeeping force after the last two centuries of imperialism and genocide. No point in waiting for us to get worse, we need to be stopped now.
You joke (I think) but you actually illustrate why so many people are supporting Ukraine. The reaction of a lot of people to "the US should be forcibly disbanded by an international peacekeeping force" would be one of indignation and fury at the suggestion that foreign powers should violate one's home and put their loved ones in danger in order to satisfy global political objectives.
Uhh given the last eight years of ethnic cleansing in the Donbas region by our coup regime in Ukraine, it's really a better example of why so mamy countries around the world are supporting the russian federation here.
I appreciate the sentiment but I don't want to see what certain states will be up to if they don't have the federal level to keep them in check.
Yeah, what if they threaten the world with nukes or open concentration camps on the southern border or something?
The same federal government that let abortion become illegal across half the country?
No it's called a sphere of influence and it's just playing by the old cold war rules.
countries are not people.
You say that as if geopolitical realism was the truth to end all inquiry, the insight to end all history.
your approach seems to be just deciding you want the world to be a certain way and ignoring all evidence to the contrary. You have to live in reality
Watch that Kraut video. It's not my responsibility to educate you.
that video is an hour and a half long. You've watched it and everything you said so far hasn't been anything I haven't heard before or consider worth hearing
Why should we still play the old war game? How do realists decide which country is a poker chip and which is a player (one area where US and European realists differ btw: In the European view, Russia is not a player)? What do you do if a country doesn't want to be a poker chip? Can you really ignore internal forces, can it all be boiled down to power politics? Why stick to a theory that was completely blind-sided by the end of the cold war and after that argued to subsidise the east so that it can continue?
That's just the tip of the iceberg.
we play the old game for the same reason we started in the first place because the major powers have the ability to demand concessions because of the power of their militaries and economies.
Russia is a player because it has a vast army and nuclear weapons
if Ukraine wants to not do as they are told by Russia they are more than welcome to fight them. America and the other powers involving themselves in that fight risks major war however also it has proved ruinously expensive to the actual populations of those countries.
Internal politics only matter if they are backed up by something
this theory wasn't blindsided by the end of the cold war. At the end of the cold war Russia was weak from crisis (incidentally largely because the Ukrainian local government so badly fucked up running a power plant and the early stages of a disaster that all the money in the soviet union was required to clean up the mess) anyway when Russia was weak and eating itself they couldn't enforce the rights they had because of their strength now they are strong again they can
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=XXmwyyKcBLk
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Why do you think leftists would give two shits about nations as if they were people? Leftism is an internationalist ideology.
Because there's people living in those countries.
Go on, write a letter to an imaginary 6yold niece of yours in Mariopol explaining why it's better that she lives in a mafia-run police state, than for Ukraine to decide its own fate.
Also, states generally refuse to be poker chips, and they have all right to do so. Thus, by insisting that they be, you invariably create conflict.
Lmao you think there are major differences in qol between two neoliberal hellscapes. Actually that's not fair. Ukraine has faired even worse since the undemocratic dissolution of the USSR.