this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024
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The difference between the extreme wings is miniscule. Methods, Objectives and Goals are the same, just the arguments differ slightly.
In Germany half of the voters of the Ultra-Left Party "Linkspartei" went within one election to the Ultra-Right Party "Alternative für Deutschland". Even starnger, the AfD is financed by Putin who wants to recreate Stalinism, which is Ultra-Leftist, while the AfD wants to recreate a Führer-Cult which is Ultra-Right. And still both cooperate perfectly.
But don't think the US is better. While Linkspartei and AfD together are 15% in the US the equally Extremist-Trumpists are close to 50%.
People need to understand that the Extremists on the wings are closer to each other than to the middle. While the middle tries to better things in small steps the Extremists want to burn the house down with everyone inside and then see who survives.
Sorry, but this is just horseshoe-theory Enlightened Centrist nonsense.
Methods? No. The far-right relies on terror, fear, and explicit power structures such as a police state to maintain power. Leftists oppose such structures, even on the ultra-left.
Objectives? Absolutely not. Right-wingers seek to maintain Capitalism, the far-right seeks to implement fascism as a reactionary protection of Capitalist hierarchy, complete with racial and gender hierarchy. The extreme left, ie Anarchists and Communists, seek a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society based on horizontal power structures. Completely different.
Goals? Same as objectives.
Horseshoe theory is absolute nonsense, and is used to protect the status quo even if the status quo must be radically changed.
Stalin and Pol Pot and Saddam used mostly the same methods as Hitler and as Pinochet and just like the Taliban.
They wanted total power to reform the society to their day dreams. There is not much difference if you call your Economy Plan "Five Year Plan" or "Maximale Kriegswirtschaft". In the end everyone gets under the foot of the Big Brother, the Grosser Führer, вождь woschd (Yes, Stalin let himself call Führer as did several other Extremist leaders).
We need to learn that the Extremists are much further away from the middle than the parties of the middle to each other. But also the Extremists are much closer to themselves.
Even Trump and Putin show a lot of those methods and while Trump dreams of US Fascism and Putin dreams of Reviving Stalinism their Objectives are just the same: Total power for themselfes.
Oh, I hear you already screaming "But they weren't Socialists/Fascists" - well, they were part of the Socialist International, they called themselves Socialists and people travelled there to see Socialism. "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."
The Way less extreme people defend themselves from the more extreme people is just "But they weren't true right/left wing. They were something else!" - Boy, I am so tired of it. If 99% if your ventures into Extremism always end the same then I see a pattern that the results will ALWAYS be the same.
And seeing how easily East Germans nowadays change from Ultra-Left to Ultra-Right and visa versa I say: Proof by Observation in the Wild.
I am not even talking about the US where 90% of the people simply don't even understand what left, right, middle, liberal and Extremism means. When giving a kid free health care is socialism and people think free voting is disrespectable liberalism.
This is even more bullshit, lmao. The only leftist you listed was Stalin, every single one of the others is a far-right fascist that oversaw a Capitalist economy. That includes Putin, who is reactionary. Even then, many call Stalin red-fash, and they aren't entirely wrong either.
Additionally, if you think reactionary changes after states fall is because the far left and far right are similar, then again, you don't understand historical trends or movements. These are reactionary movements to a large-scale failure.
Again, this is nothing but horse-shoe theory nonsense, it's equivalent to astrology in validity but far more dangerous politically.
Here's a quick example: which is better, an extreme antiracist, or an extreme racist? In your eyes, both are equally bad. Radicalism is not bad alone, neither is extremism. Each view must be judged on a case by case basis.
Whenever a Left-Extremist does something stupid his buddies just claim "Well, he wasn't Left anyway. Lets just pretend he was a Nazi instead, haha."
Brilliant. But easy to see through.
The Right-Extremist takes peoples property and life because they are the wrong race. The Left-Extremists takes peples property without reason and life because we wasn't left enough.
It would be amazing if you could say something coherent about the left without making shit up, lmao
Feel free to quote and analyse any mistakes I made in detail.
And if you can't: Then you are lying.
The bit about the left taking peoples property for no reason and fighting people for not being left of them screams "strawman with no actual points against leftism" to me. You've got this whole "Enlightened Centrist" thing going on that just proves you don't actually want to analyze things and instead just fence-sit because the status quo benefits you.
Learn to quote. I wrote "Extremists". You claim I wrote "Leftists". You need to learn that the Extreme Wings are much further away from the middle than the left and right middle to each other.
Also, I see you are doing the 101 of populism:
Oh, and by the way, I am living in Germany. You fucking have you idea what you are talking about if you are talking about left and right politics, extremists and middle. Honestly, you sound like someone with an extreme case of borderline syndrome who only know "THEM" vs "US", only knows Extreme Counterpositions.
But that is not how the world works. Even our local conservative parties are much more leftist than eg the US Democrats and that is a good thing. I vote mostly Green and Social Democrats. But I HATE the Extremists, the Maoists, Stalinists, the Alternative Truthers, the national party, the skin heads (there are left and right skinheads in Germany so... pick your poison). And I see the Extremists changing without a second thought from Left Extremism to Right Extremism. Hell, I have even seen Left Extremists convert to Islam Extremism so they have Gods blessing in hating others. You can not make up how stupid Extremists are.
Ah, here is something interesting:
The liberal Reichsbanner Movement is going to celebrate 100 years of Resistance to Extremism. They do not differentiate between left and right Extremism. Never did. And their members number in the Millions. That is how you really fight Extremism.
Extremism can be correct. The only correct response to racism is antiracism, which is an extremist stance. It's fitting that a liberal party would fight leftist movement.
Actually Mao claimed his great leap forward was "Anti-Racism" (and also Anti-Classism and whatever) because he forcefully removed all differences by murdering pretty much any one standing out. Pol Pot never claimed that but technically speaking he was doing the same: Forcefully removing everything making people different. Yes, there is "Extremist Anti-Racism".
Being different is as much a basic right as being treated equally.
An interesting excursus: The Woke movement labelled it "racist" when Non-Rasta-People wore Rasta curls. I on the other hand call it racist to deny people the right to freely chose or reject traditions based on their origin. Because one side is Extremist and the other is liberal. Now tell me where the truth lies.
There is a Bavarian Pro-Verb: Cats enjoy mice, but not me. Again, tell me where the truth lies.
You're confusing "extremism" with "violence." Pacifism is extremist.
No, Pacificm is not always Extremist.
The Green party of Germany is Pacifist.
But they also have been the loudest about rearming the German Bundeswehr in face of Russian Aggression since 2008. I cite their defence speaker from 2010: "Peace is worth fighting for".
Pacifism is an extremist position. Everyone wants to avoid violence, but pacifism is extremist.
You're combining radical, extreme views with violence for no reason other than to lie about having a point. Enlightened Centrism at its peak.
Great Purge
Cultural Revolution
Killing Fields
"Socialism does not mean the equal distribution of wealth between the wealthy and the poor, this would be too inflexible. Rather, socialism is a means of increasing productivity." - Saddam Hussein, Leader of the Arab socialist Movement: in: ath-thawra
Best Definition of "Fascism" I have ever heared. From an Extremist Socialist trying to redefine Socialism.
You may argue "how Extremist" Fa, Anti-Fa and Anti-Anti-Fa are. But you can not argue that they are all Extremists.
Now answer me with your usual emotional one-liners. Add some foot stomping. I do not expect anything more from you.
I don't think Lemmy is ready to hear that kind of thing.
Extreme wings sounds like a crispy chicken dish
Never compare me to a German again