773
this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
773 points (98.7% liked)
Privacy
31707 readers
168 users here now
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
Related communities
Chat rooms
-
[Matrix/Element]Dead
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Not sure if it's a fallacy if it's about addressing people who have spent a ton on an ecosystem and can't just devote more money to buy the alternative and time to figure out the parts that aren't compatible
What parts aren't compatible? And you can load Linux and Windows on all Mac's. You can also sell your iPhone and buy an android phone with money left over... getting out of the apple closed ecosystem is cheaper than sticking with it.
For most people, time is not regarded to be free (i.e. not a cost). As a devoted Linux user, the adage that "Linux is only free if you don't value your time" is absolutely true.
Uhh ok install windows then?
Learning Windows is still a time cost. You're also losing your library of Mac software and quite a few interoperability features between your other Apple products.
??? So you're plan is to just say fuck it, and continue to be fucked over by apple? The fuck logic is that? Almost all software has a replacement in windows/Linux. I work in all 3 ecosystems, there is very little that lacks an alternative in each os. Sticking to osx/iOS is just a cop out.
No. My argument is that if Apple isn't going to open up their ecosystem to genuine competition and genuine interoperability then they need to have their hand forced through regulation.
Telling people to just stop buying Apple products is a lazy, knee-jerk self-righteous response that ignores the realities of platform lock-in.
Good luck with that...I vote with my wallet instead of buying into fad shit.
You seem to think that regulation doesn't work. Luckily, we have a test case set up for us in real-life.
In the United States, consumers relied on voting with their wallets. In the European Union, regulatory agencies forced Apple to take pro-consumer moves through regulation.
Now take a look at which approach produced results and which approach left consumers continuing to complain about the lack of interoperability and the lack of competition in Apple's walled garden.
Cool, tell me again where we are? And if you think legislation will actually be brought up and passed here in the states...
Can’t do that on ARM. Windows on ARM sucks and there isn’t a good app ecosystem.
There isn't a good app ecosystem for arm on osx either? What's your point?
You’re incorrect. Tons of apps are native ARM on Mac now, also rosetta2 emulation is really fast. Obviously not as fast as native ARM but it surprised me.
Most might be native but tell me what apps don't have an alternative on x86 and I'll agree with you.
Exclusivity isn’t the point. A healthy app ecosystem is what we’re discussing, which ARM on Mac has. It wasn’t great for 6 months or so, but it’s quite good now.
??? No the whole discussion on this has been how people can't get out of the ecosystem. Which I've provided multiple ways to get out of it. There is really zero point to even bring up ARM MacBooks, because as you have said the ecosystem isn't exclusive.
Did you forget what you said? This is what I’m responding to.
macOS (not osX for many years now) has a healthy app ecosystem, unlike windows for ARM.
My point is “install Windows” isn’t a valid option for anyone with an ARM Mac, so suggesting it is silly. Mac hasn’t made an x86 computer in a couple years.
Did you miss the part where I said sell it and buy a x86 machine and have money left over?
I'm not the parent commenter, but Apple Silicon has much wider app support than ARM on Windows. There's also Rosetta, which works alright, I suppose. Not spectacularly and usually not anywhere near native performance but it's at least okay.
You can't refund anything that's not physical, for one...
Where did I say refund anything?
You asked what parts aren't compatible, and one answer is everything bought for Apple computers, iPhones, iPads, etc. Apps, media, anything that isn't subscription based.
And windows/Android/Linux all have alternatives. This is not an excuse.
What's the alternative to $5,000 of DRM encrypted media exclusively served by Apple?
The point of this thought experiment is to understand that sunk cost is a real thing outside of a fallacy.
What media is served by apple only?
This
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203375
This
https://www.apple.com/apple-books/
This
https://www.apple.com/itunes/
??? All of that is accessible on both other OS's
*sigh*
https://www.apple.com/app-store/
??? What's this supposed to be? Shit that's on the app store...also exists in the android store, usually it's a 1 to 1.
I (and other people) have already said that re-buying the same products and learning alternative ones is expensive in both time and money. That's the point.
And I don't know a ton of iOS killer apps but you would probably have to convince people with a ton of effort that Procreate is replaced by something on Android, let alone any other app I don't know about
And I've already pointed out that almost all products you buy are not OS specific...the license is for the software not the OS. So you don't have to rebuy, but that seems to be something the fanboys are missing.
Every Apple mobile app only runs on Apple hardware. Unless you assume 100% luck or 100% foresight, which is rare, every app that runs on a different platform was written for that different platform in addition to the Apple one.
Where did I say that you can run ios apps directly on Android or osx dmgs on Windows? I never did, I said they almost always have versions of it that run on different platforms. There is a windows version of Photoshop....so your logic here is that osx version of Photoshop cannot run on Windows...no shit...
Okay, so you would advise someone who bought, say, Photoshop on a Mac OS to consider that cost sunk, and then to purchase what on Linux?
Gimp for Linux. It's free even.
On top of that the Photoshop license is not os specific. You can use it for Windows or osx.
Gimp has a small subset of Photoshop features... That's... Common knowledge
Ok? And Photoshop license isn't for just osx... you're literally proving the point that you can migrate but you don't want to because of some stupid allegiance to apple
I... Don't like Apple at all. I'm engaging in a thing called a thought experiment, which is required to rationally assess why somebody might not want to throw away things they have purchased and devote both more time and more money to something that doesn't work as well as it.
So I don't know what all the cool killer Mac apps. Replace Photoshop with the name of a bunch of cool killer Mac apps, and repeat the question.
Well if you're playing devil's advocate then I guess ok? But that's a tough job on this one, as there are very little pros to sticking with apple.