this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
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Modern day China is both capitalist and emperialist and has a disregard for basic human rights. It is not in any way shape or form a communist state. Oh, and it actively tries to censor and erase the fact that it ran down its own citizens with tanks.
How is China imperialist? The other stuff you're saying us wrong too, but i know the propaganda you will point to to get there. But imperialist? You mean Belt and Road? Building hospitals in Africa?
Are you saying that China doesn't censor or try to hide this? Can I just go to Tienanmen square and start talking to locals about what happened there and they'll openly talk about how awful it was?
What do you think happened at Tienanmen Square? Because you might want to figure that out before you start grinning like a moron while asking a Chinese person about "how awful what happened at Tienanmen Square was".
I don't understand what you're trying to get at here. Are you suggesting there was no massacre?
Not at Tienanmen Square. Confirmed by western reporters at the scene along with contemporary US diplomatic cables later leaked by Wikileaks. Western media is really attached to that image of the guy in front of a tank, so everyone just pretends it was the site of a mass murder. Really odd.
It's really not that odd.
It is. The only evidence of a massacre of protestors in Tienanmen Square presented in that article is Wu'erkaixi's claim that he saw 200 people shot, but he had actually left the protests hours before the final protestors left, and literally everyone else present (including western journalists) says that the last protestors left peacefully.
Edit: Here's an overview from the former Beijing bureau chief of The Washington Post, who was in Beijing covering the protests in 1989.
This sounds like straight up Chinese state propaganda trying to down play the massacre to the point it didn't happen.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/g36621881/tiananmen-square-massacre-photos/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/03/sacred-day-chinese-remember-tiananmen-killings-by-fasting
You could read the article.
Let's start with Tibet.
You mean the theocratic slaver state of Tibet that was liberated by the PLA? That's a fine place to start to show that you are just another western left anti-communist.
Edit: I'd recommend Blackshirts and Reds to understand the phenomenon of left anti-communism in the West. If you're serious about communism, it might help you understand the rift driven between you and the people you call "tankies" https://mltheory.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds_-rational-fascism-and-the-overthrow-of-communism-2001.pdf
Yes yes yes, China freed and liberated Tibet by taking it over. Of course. Nothing imperialist about that.
Just like the US has been liberating and freeing all those people in the middle east.
There's a big a difference between the two actions. Let's start with the US. They "liberate" Iraq and Afghanistan and proceed to extract value out of the country. Byzantine networks of private contractor orgs: Haliburton, KBR, Blackwater all making money, along with the military industrial profiteer complex. These countriee were hollowed out for profit and foreign extraction. US empire nakedly acts to make money for the ruling class.
Now, where is that in Tibet? Where is the capitalist extraction? Where is the hollowing out and using up of resources? People in Tibet are now freer, and better educated, and live better lives now than when they were slaves to the lamas. Its not cynical double speak to call what happened in Tibet liberation the way the US government claimed to he liberating Iraq. They freed an enslaved people, that's not an act of imperialism just because it involved an army. An army literally named the People's Liberation Army
You think that China does not extract any economic value out of Tibet? That's pure naivete.
The victorious imperialists ALWAYS claim that their subjugation of another is to the benefit of that other nations. Always.
You don't know how to actually counter what i said because you don't really know about Tibet or the PRC, or understand that while its not yet operating under full socialism, it does have a dictatorship of the proletariat guided by a revolutionary vanguard party. Not understanding these things, yet having an opinion about the PRC is charitably naivete