Privacy

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How good/bad is Firefox sync. (programming.dev)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Basically I am using mull on android and librewolf on linux.I want to use firefox sync or something line that for syncing.So how good Firefox sync is, in privacy point on view. I am not anonymity paranoid I just want privacy so basically what do they collect and for what?

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

What do you think what googleanalytics and googletagmanager do and who logs this datas? Only Mozilla? And yes, as said before, Firefox is OK, but not so with an Mozilla account, with which Google said "come to Daddy". I hope that Mozilla, as promised, can end this year the contract with Google.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Mozilla has several privacy policies that cover its various products and services which all seem to follow Mozilla's Privacy Principles and Mozilla's overarching Privacy Policy. Mozilla also has documentation regarding data collection.

The analytics trackers that you mentioned would fall under Mozilla's Websites Privacy Policy, which does state that it uses Google Analytics and can be easily verified a number of ways such as the services you previously listed.

However, Firefox sync uses https://accounts.firefox.com/ which has its own Privacy Policy. There is some confusion around "Firefox Accounts" as it was rebranded to "Mozilla Accounts", which again has its own Privacy Policy. There is no indication that data covered by those policies are shared with Google. If Google Analytics trackers on Mozilla's website are still a concern for these services, you can verify that the Firefox Accounts and Mozilla Accounts URLs do not contain any Google Analytics trackers.

Firefox has a Privacy Policy as well. Firefox's Privacy Policy has sections for both Mozilla Accounts and Sync. Neither of which indicate that data is shared with Google. Additionally, the data stored via the Sync service is encrypted. However, there is some telemetry data that Mozilla collects regarding Sync and more information about it can be found on Mozilla's documentation about telemetry for Sync.

The only thing that I could find about Firefox, Sync, or Firefox Accounts/Mozilla Accounts sharing data with Google was for location services within Firefox. While it would be nice for Firefox not to use Google's geolocation services, it is a reasonable concession and can be disabled.

Mozilla is most definitely not a perfect company, even when it comes to privacy. Even Firefox has been caught with some privacy issues relatively recently with the unique installation ID.

Again, I'm not saying that Mozilla is doing nothing wrong. I am saying that your "evidence" that Mozilla is sharing Firefox, Sync, or Firefox Accounts/Mozilla Accounts data with Google because of Google Analytics trackers on some of Mozilla's websites is coincidental at best. Without additional evidence, it is misleading or flat out wrong.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Don't get me wrong, Mozilla does a lot for user privacy and is certainly one of the most reliable alternatives for a user among the existing browsers. I'm just seeing that Mozilla has unfortunately made a contract with the Devil that prevents it from having the full freedom of protection that it would like. Mozilla deserves the independence of this company, which, at the moment, it does not have, which is why I said that I wish it could end this contract.

I use several browsers, but the list of existing ones with certain capabilities and functionalities is getting small.

Edge is technically a good browser, but certainly not recommended for those who appreciate privacy,
Chrome users could ask Google to write their resume directly,
Opera is perhaps the worst, using trackers that distribute your data to half the internet,
Safari It is not much better either and it is also becoming the new IE with its desire to stay with an engine that is becoming obsolete,
Brave is unreliable due to its business with shady crypto companies and the intentional redirections to them and excluding investors from the protections against trackers, Facebook among them,
Otter is an alternative, but fighting for its survival, which makes it not very reliable in the long term,
the same with some Gecko and Chromium marginal forks, which either lack sufficient equipment for sufficient maintenance, They are directly outdated or lack a consistent support community, - Mullvad browser is very private, yes, but it completely lacks the minimum functions for customization or modification, practically a Firefox left in its bones with 4 sections in the settings.
SSuite Netsurf, very fast and beautiful, but not very configurable, it does not even allow you to change the Groot search engine, which on the other hand is good and private, it also does not have extensions, only an Adblocker that it incorporates and it is also only for Windows, the only plus its extraordinary speed and that it works even on very old Windows (>XP) with few resources.

Well, there's not much left, Firefox, Vivaldi, maybe Otter (if you want speed) and Mullvad, to choose from. The big companies are really destroying a free internet in their greed to control everything and using the user as raw material and merchandise for this. Tough times if we don't manage to stop them. More than 70 browsers have already fallen by the wayside, discontinued and abandoned in this "browser war"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I'm still not sure what point you are trying to make. Your initial claim was:

Although Mozilla encrypts the synced data, the necessary account data is shared and used by Google to track those.

@[email protected] asked:

Are you saying Firefox shares data to Alphabet beyond Google as the default search engine? If so and if it applies to Sync (as if the question from OP here) can you please share sources for that?

You stated:

Mozilla does, sharing your account data

You also provided evidence that Mozilla uses Google Analytics trackers on the Firefox's product information website. I mentioned that it's not sufficient evidence of your claim as the trackers are independent of Firefox the browser and Sync. Additionally, the use of trackers for websites is clearly identified on Mozilla's Privacy Policies and there is not much else mentioned on the Privacy Policies outside of those trackers and Google's geolocation services in Firefox.

You've also mentioned Google's contract with Mozilla, which is controversial for many people, but isn't evidence of Mozilla providing user data to Google even in conjunction with the previously mentioned trackers. You then discussed various other browsers, but I'm not sure how that is relevant to your initial claim.

While it seems we can both agree that Mozilla and it's products are far from perfect, it is looking like your initial claim was baseless as you have yet to provide any evidence of your initial claim. Do you have any evidence through things like code reviews or packet inspections of Firefox or Sync that hints Mozilla is sharing additional information to Google? At this point, I would even accept a user(s) providing evidence of some weird behavior like the recent issue where google.com wouldn't load in Firefox on Android if someone could find a way to connect the weird behavior to Mozilla sharing data with Google.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Indeed, thanks for the mention because I wanted to go back on this. I wouldn't quality any of this as evidence of Sync sharing usage data. Everything else is still correct, i.e defaulting to Google as search engine, some analytics, etc but it's still unrelated to Sync. I don't see how other browsers are relevant. It looks like they and OP are trying to show that Mozilla is not perfect, that they make money and share some private data and thus assume that any data used on any Mozilla product is shared with 3rd parties, including Alphabet, without providing any evidence for that. I'm not sure arguing more will help.