this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024
353 points (96.8% liked)
Technology
59378 readers
4188 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Ok, I'm out of the loop and I've seen this often enough that I have to ask; why do people always bring up "written in rust"? No one points out that a given project is written in C++/C#/python/ruby etc, yet we keep seeing it for rust.
If you want a real answer, it's mostly advocacy, the same reason Linux enthusiasts show up to every negative-sounding Windows thread to tell you to install Linux instead. And if it is less obnoxious, it's only because there's fewer Rust enthusiasts.
There are, also, advantages to a Rust implementation that you can claim simply by virtue of something being implemented in Rust, as entire categories of problem that cause C projects to hemorrhage security vulnerabilities simply don't exist for Rust.
But mostly it's people wanting you to be excited about and interested in Rust.
Is there something inherently safer with how rust does things, or is it just a case of it being new, so the vulnerabilities haven't been found yet?
Well rust has a borrow checker which does make some memory bugs harder to create but to say that rust solved any of the known open problems in computer security. The answer is clearly no. It just copied some good ideas from ocaml into C++ and got some good marketing.
borrow checkers also already exist for C/C++/etc [just most people don't use them]
so, slightly safer defaults than C/C++ but doesn't contain any new/unique security magic.
I feel like this is an example of innovation vs invention. Rust did not invent borrow checking. It did, however, make the borrow checker an integral part of the language and compiler. Making memory safety the default behavior is innovative and makes it the path of least resistance.
Memory safety issues are responsible not just for crashes and perf degredation but are a significant attack vector for exploits. Making it harder to land there makes these exploitable conditions less common. The mechanism is not unique but its integral place in the language is.
It kinda really pioneered its particular kind of memory management. There's some theoretical ancestry involving ML-based research languages with region typing, stuff like this, but those are ultimately quite different. The rest of the type system is basically a cut-down Haskell (Hindley-Milner with qualified types (typeclasses/traits)), with some minor titbits and fiddling.
not exactly, as there are rust compilers like mrust that don't actually have borrow checkers and virtually none of those safety checks actually occur and there is a question of if the gcc rust compiler would be implementing that feature into the compiler.
So, that would be an attribution failure; as it isn't required by the language but the most popular rust compiler does include that feature.
But yes, more compilers would likely benefit the languages they support by also adopting that feature by default.
Borrow checking is part of the language specification, and a compiler that does not include it is, by definition, incomplete. The authors of mrust even state this in the project README.
Your claim is roughly equivalent to saying a C compiler which does not produce an error when a program calls an undeclared function means that C as a language does not ensure that your code doesn’t call functions that don’t exist - i.e., nonsense at worst, and irrelevant at best.
But it also has a cool name. You forgot to mention that very important aspect.