this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2024
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251
New Discord TOS binds you to forced arbitration - Opt-Out Now (discord.com)
submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
43 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/17618684

Forced arbitration means any legal disputes you may have with Discord must be resolved through a single third party mediator, who 99% of the time is chosen by, and will rule in favor of, the corporation/Discord. This effectively removes all your legal rights as a consumer, because arbitration decisions are legally binding and non-appealable.

The new ToS goes into effect April 15th, 2024.

YOU CAN OPT OUT OF ARBITRATION. You must email [email protected] BEFORE MAY 15TH (30 days after ToS effective date) with your username stating that you wish to opt out of the arbitration clause. Once May 15th passes you are bound to arbitration with Discord forever.

Opt-out before it's too late.

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[–] [email protected] 101 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, good luck enforcing that contract in any country that has a legal concept of "automatically unfair contract terms".

[–] [email protected] 73 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

the arbitration terms are explicitly stated to be US only. unfortunately the US is not a country with a functioning legal system

[–] [email protected] 54 points 7 months ago (2 children)

What are you talking about, the US has the best legal system money can buy

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

'Money.exe' not found. It may be corrupted or you don't have administration right.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

You said it pal, not me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Can you include that in the title and description please? It's a pretty important detail to leave out!

[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago

Another company wants to skip liability. https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/pixel-phones-come-w-forced-arbitration-a:9

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago

I wonder how long until they inform us about a data breach.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago (1 children)

A TOS isn't legally binding.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's false.

Any contract is legally binding... except for the parts that go against the law.

I'd suggest consulting a lawyer knowledgeable of your particular jurisdiction, before deciding which part may or may not be binding.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Any contract is legally binding

Exactly. And a TOS is not a contract.

If you go to law definitions, contracts have a number of requirements to be such, of which to my knowledge a TOS fails two (Negotiability and Certainty).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

IANAL, check with your local lawyer, but AFAIK...

ToS are a "generic contract", where a single entity proposes the same contract to multiple parties.

Negotiability, or more precisely offer and acceptance, are achieved by the simple "take it or leave it". The requirement is that there needs to be an option, it doesn't need to be one to change parts of the document.

Certainty is usually achieved by adding a partial nullifying clause, so any ambiguous parts get automatically trimmed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Negotiability, or more precisely offer and acceptance, are achieved by the simple “take it or leave it”.

Maybe in the US, where that kind of this would honestly be expected. Here in more decent countries, Negotiability requires that both parties can exercise offer an acceptance to the contract. I consulted to our local digital ethics group about it and they are in accordance, at least to what pertains to my country.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (5 children)

We need a Federated FOSS Discord alternative built to work with the activity pub protocol.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Has anybody made a matrix app that looks like a discord clone? That sounds easier since the federated rich text chat is already made, the current clients don't really appeal to the discord crowd.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

Cinny is the closest to Discord in terms of UI, it even has a feature where you can show subspaces within a space as if they're categories of a Discord server.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

We welcome anyone back to IRC

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

No we don't. We need small instances, each with their own specific topics and communities that DO NOT share your information far and wide, like the fediverse does. I don't think the fediverse model is the way forward.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

But by not sharing anything, you'd loose users who don't want to sign up for each instance individually. I think it would be a good way to be able to sign up once on one instance and then being able to use all other instances available, but the chats etc of one instance being private to the instance itself.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

True, and then there's the other side of the coin. Federation exposes you to trolls, nazis, and doxxing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Well I guess if you wanted you could just run it defederated? And you could also build in that the instance/guild owner needs to accept joins, I guess?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Or… how about we just treat the fediverse like it is a…. public forum…. and use different tools for having more private conversations?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Isn't there already one? Thought that was what Revolt was

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

not federated

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Is open source though, federation can always come later

That said I'm not sure why they didn't use matrix from the start

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Federation isn't something that can be added later. This has to be part of the protocol from the start.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I thought Lemmy started without federation?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

It started as a Fediverse-based alternative to Reddit, so it was designed with federation in mind from the start.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Anything "can" be added later... as for the effort required, that's a separate matter.

I also wonder why they didn't use Matrix from the start. Right now, with group chats, spaces, threads, and audio/video streaming, bridges, bots, etc. while allowing E2EE, Matrix already seems to be better than Discord.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

So... Lemmy? Mastodon?

Although I think Matrix is better suited for chat, just need a client with voice/video support.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Do I need to worry about this not being in the US? I'm wary of the way I word my opt out incase it causes me some issues down the line

[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

No, this is for US only. Where corporations are permitted to abuse the market and the law (or lack thereof).

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

How are we supposed to opt out? By deleting our accounts?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago

You must email [email protected] BEFORE MAY 15TH (30 days after ToS effective date) with your username stating that you wish to opt out of the arbitration

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

If you read the post, it says you can opt out by emailing your username to discord

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

Thx for the reminder to get to deleting my discord accs

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

A few years ago, wasn't there a company (maybe it was uber?) that was being overwhelmed by arbitration fee's for a large number of arbitration cases? I forget the outcome, but it may be due to their agreement stipulating they would cover arbitration fees. Either way, forced arbitration needs to go.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Does that applies to accounts registered in the US but now I'm not physically lived in?