this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2024
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[–] [email protected] 37 points 9 months ago (11 children)

"Electoral interference" is illegal, but "shaping and changing the PRC" is just business.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Yeah because you outsourced the crap out of them and then acted surprised when they leveraged that economic power.

On the other hand, China is also probably the one country where they successfully kept the CIA out. Can't coup your way out of this one.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 9 months ago (31 children)

Imagine if US spent all that effort changing itself and improving the lives of the people living in US. Maybe it could be half as good a country to live in as China today. 😂

[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

But why would it do that, that'd be silly. The system is working fantastically for those who run it

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

indeed it is, rich people are making money hand over fist

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

That's a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie for you.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If the US had embraced FDR's vision of democratic socialism instead of letting Capitalists be unfettered Capitalist, I think we would have more people be way better off then China today since we wouldn't have out-sourced anything to China to begin with (Unions and DemSocs wouldn't have allowed the outsourcing.)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Thing is that US did embrace FDR's vision and then capitalists dismantled it. As long as the country is ruled by capitalists then socialism is never going to be a long term option. You might get brief periods of sanity, but people at the top will work hard to revert these gains back.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 9 months ago (3 children)

We also saw something that really stood out, which is that the PRC believed the United States was in terminal decline — that our industrial base had been hollowed out, that our commitment to our allies and partners had been undercut, that the United States was struggling to manage a once-in-a-century pandemic, and that many in Beijing were openly proclaiming that “the East was rising and the West was falling.”

Sullivan can't get away with this. He can't just say a banger line like this and continue on without addressing it.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 9 months ago

Some more absolute bangers in an earlier talk from Sullivan where he admits that the whole free market bullshit they've been promoting can't actually compete with what China is doing. It's an absolutely incredible read, Sullivan claims that the American economy lacks public investment, as it did after World War II. And that China is actively using this tool.

last few decades revealed cracks in those foundations. A shifting global economy left many working Americans and their communities behind.

The People’s Republic of China continued to subsidize at a massive scale both traditional industrial sectors, like steel, as well as key industries of the future, like clean energy, digital infrastructure, and advanced biotechnologies. America didn’t just lose manufacturing—we eroded our competitiveness in critical technologies that would define the future.

He also opined that the market is far from being able to regulate everything, and "in the name of overly simplified market efficiency, entire supply chains of strategic goods, along with the industries and jobs that produced them, were moved abroad."

Another problem he identified is the growth of the financial sector to the detriment of the industrial and infrastructure sectors, which is why many industries "atrophied" and industrial capacities "seriously suffered."

Finally, he admitted that colonization and westernization of countries through globalization has failed:

Much of the international economic policy of the last few decades had relied upon the premise that economic integration would make nations more responsible and open, and that the global order would be more peaceful and cooperative—that bringing countries into the rules-based order would incentivize them to adhere to its rules.

Sullivan cited China as an example:

By the time President Biden came into office, we had to contend with the reality that a large non-market economy had been integrated into the international economic order in a way that posed considerable challenges.

The People’s Republic of China continued to subsidize at a massive scale both traditional industrial sectors, like steel, as well as key industries of the future, like clean energy, digital infrastructure, and advanced biotechnologies. America didn’t just lose manufacturing—we eroded our competitiveness in critical technologies that would define the future.

In his opinion, all this has led to dangerous consequences for the US led hegemony:

And ignoring economic dependencies that had built up over the decades of liberalization had become really perilous—from energy uncertainty in Europe to supply-chain vulnerabilities in medical equipment, semiconductors, and critical minerals. These were the kinds of dependencies that could be exploited for economic or geopolitical leverage.

Today, the United States produces only 4 percent of the lithium, 13 percent of the cobalt, 0 percent of the nickel, and 0 percent of the graphite required to meet current demand for electric vehicles. Meanwhile, more than 80 percent of critical minerals are processed by one country, China.

America now manufactures only around 10 percent of the world’s semiconductors, and production—in general and especially when it comes to the most advanced chips—is geographically concentrated elsewhere.

At the same time, according to him, the United States does not intend to isolate itself from China.

Our export controls will remain narrowly focused on technology that could tilt the military balance. We are simply ensuring that U.S. and allied technology is not used against us. We are not cutting off trade.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (13 children)

A nation of 330 million cannot control a nation that has 1 billion more people. Nations should also be free to choose their own destiny. A logical fallacy many in the West fall for is assuming the rest of the world wants to be like them and should be like them. If I have a 3000 or 4000 year-old civilization why should I take marching orders from a baby state that’s not even 300 years old like the US?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

"... holding in one’s head multiple truths at the same time and working iteratively to reconcile them."

That sounds really hard, have you tried cognitive dissonance?

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