this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
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I was going to post this as a comment, but it was in an anarchism community, and I figured some sections of it might be unacceptable there. Hence, new post.

Here's a guideline of how to interact with cops. There are more or less three modes, depending on your read of the situation. Cops are not always the enemy or the maniacal whole-job-is-making-evil thugs that Lemmy sometimes makes them out to be. It really is bad for people to get mugged or their cars broken into, and they're the solution our society has come up with to minimize the amount of it that happens. It's not always a bad thing.

If you find yourself talking to the cops, there are more or less three ways:

  • They're there to solve a real problem. Someone's car got broken into, someone got beat up. Just talk with them. Tell them what you know, help them figure out the situation. In almost all of the US, their effect on the problem will be positive, and it'll be a lot more positive if they have a good grasp of what happened. If, in your opinion, the person they're trying to catch really did do something that warrants a law enforcement response, then give them a hand. Use your judgement as to whether that's warranted of course, and your impression of the justice level in your local area, since it varies quite a lot in the US.
  • They're there for you. Shut the fuck up. Don't say a goddamned word. It doesn't even matter if you didn't do it. Don't explain. Shut the fuck up. Be polite, obey lawful orders, definitely don't fight them or you'll get a felony and might also get injured or worse, but tell them that if you're suspected of a crime, then you'd like to talk to a lawyer, and you have nothing else to say. And then, shut the fuck up and cooperate. Maybe you want to go as far as "Were you shoplifting?" "What? No. That wasn't me, man." But any further explanation than that, just leave it alone. Definitely don't make something up on the spot, to make yourself sound innocent, if you did do it. For the love of God, don't do that.
  • They're there for someone who didn't do anything wrong. The reason for this post is, anything and everything with ICE and immigration falls into this category. Some things with local cops will, also. Just be unhelpful and simple. No, I didn't see anything. I don't know. I'm not sure. Be vague. Don't get creative, keep it simple, don't refuse to give your ID or otherwise antagonize them or commit minor crimes of obstruction, but just do your best imitation of someone who just fell from the sky. "So you've NEVER MET your neighbor. Your neighbor across the hall." "Nope." "Are you sure?" "Yeah, I don't know." "I mean, she gave us your name, she said she'd talked to you." "I don't know, I don't remember that." Don't embellish. Don't explain why. Just calmly let the silence linger and the pressure build up, without adding extra words.

Like I said, everything with ICE or other immigration authorities falls into the third category. No exceptions. Everything. The same applies with any type of federal law enforcement, I suspect, for the next few years.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 13 hours ago

Man this thread is full of people asking to get jerked around by the cops. "AM I bEiNg DetaIneD?!" Well, you definitely upped your chances.

Here's a life lesson: don't act like a fuckwad to anybody and your outcomes are likely to be better across the board.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Rule 1 : Don't

Rule 2 : Am I being detained?

Rule 3 : I will not answer any questions without my lawyer present.

Be as advised, in the US, if you are driving your car, you are required to identify yourself to an officer, along with providing proof of registration and insurance. Remember, you can beat the ticket, but you can't beat the ride.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 13 hours ago
  1. Resume consumption of your succulent Chinese meal
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

what does "can't beat the ride" mean in this context?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 13 hours ago

Basically, if the police are going to grab you, it's best not to resist. Exercise your rights in court, not on the pavement.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Take the ticket so you don't get arrested is how I interpreted it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

This is bad advice. In all cases, dont talk to them.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"Hey, you reported a home intrusion?"

"I wont say anything without a lawyer present."

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yep, calling the cops is a good way to get murdered. Better not to call them

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

In most situations, Honestly just easier to file the report at the station.

Neighbor's car got broken into. Called the cops and for some reason, THREE cops went door to door demanding home owners hand over video of their door cams?

I went to yell at my neighbor who apologized like crazy, saying he just asked them to file a report, not play Bad Boys action-hero.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In the USA your advice is bad advice. You are in some situations obligated to answer questions. “Im not sure” and “I don’t know/recall” are perfectly valid answers

[–] [email protected] 1 points 23 hours ago

Those answers can be used to convict you. Don't say anything!

[–] [email protected] 103 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (13 children)

Maybe you want to go as far as “Were you shoplifting?” “What? No. That wasn’t me, man.” ... do your best imitation of someone who just fell from the sky. “So you’ve NEVER MET your neighbor. Your neighbor across the hall.” “Nope.” “Are you sure?” “Yeah, I don’t know.”

Wrong.

Don't tell the cops "I don't know" or "I didn't see anything," or anything of that ilk. Don't try to plead innocence. Don't try to use logic. It will only ever work against you, and it will never work in your favor. Always always always always.

Just tell them you exercise your right to be silent. Over and over again, if necessary. That is all you say. Be a broken record. There is no situation where you are actually obligated (in the US) to answer any type of questions for any type of law enforcement, at any time, for any reason, ever. That's all you need to tell them. You don't answer questions. You don't answer why you don't answer questions.

This is because you can also be prosecuted for lying to them, and their grounds for accusing you of lying can be pretty shaky but you still might get convicted. You can't be prosecuted for saying nothing.

Note that this will not prevent them from lying to you, which is legal, and making spurious threats of arrest or similar to attempt to intimidate you into complying. Be aware that this is automatically bullshit. At worst the can hold you for up to 48 hours (-ish, state laws vary on that point somewhat) without charging you with anything and even if they do, you still don't have to say anything to them.

If this happens, lawyer up immediately. You can sue them afterwards if it comes about that they violated any of your civil rights in the process.

In light of all of the above, I don't deal with the police at all.

Name and if necessary, driver's license. That's it. That's all I'm legally obligated to provide in my state, and even then only in specific circumstances. If they're on my actual property they can pack sand; No warrant, interaction. I won't talk to them, I won't even answer the door. If they want to try to bust in illegally, what happens after that is on them.

I will further never, ever call the police for any reason. They simply can't be trusted. If I have a problem with someone or something, I will solve it myself. The cops in my area have near as makes no difference to a 0% clearance rate for nuisance crimes, assault/battery, thefts, and burglaries anyway. Unless you need a report for insurance purposes it's useless, and at that rate I'll have my attorney call them on my behalf. They are not in the business of helping you. So don't even expect that they will.

TL;DR: Don't talk to the police.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 2 days ago (2 children)

"What day is it? IT'S SHUT THE FUCK UP FRIDAY!"

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago

I am so happy to see this. I posted one of the videos below.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 days ago (4 children)

This is correct answer, never speak to the police. They can and will use anything you say and try to make you guilty of SOMETHING.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago

I agree with this. In the US you can only be compelled to answer questions if you are given immunity, which will almost never happen.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Also, never answer the question, "Do you know why I pulled you over?" with anything that sounds like an admission. They're fishing and looking to have you confess to a traffic violation.

The honest answer is "No, I'm not sure why you pulled me over," because it's true. There are a million motivations they might have come up with to pull you over, and you're neither psychic or telepathic.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Good advice. Think about the situation and get a feel for what's going on, instead of automatically trusting or hating cops. It really isn't smart to treat real life like a meme.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It really isn't. I've seen some bodycam videos of people who got themselves in a significant amount of trouble that they didn't need to be in, because they were aggressively ignorantly hostile to cops who were just showing up for some straightforward reason and trying to do their jobs.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I've seen those videos too, and I don't know what you meant by "it really isn't" but I wouldn't advise being aggressively ignorantly hostile to cops no matter what they're doing. If you're a victim of police abuse, they have all the power in that moment and being belligerent will not help you. It's not a matter of principle, it's a matter of surviving that situation so you can fight it in court where you'll have a better (i.e. nonzero) chance.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Oh, no, I was agreeing with you, sorry. What I meant was "It really isn't smart to treat real life like a meme."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

LOL sorry, lazy me didn't hit the link button and see what it was about, even though I really like how well that lemmy feature works.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

It's all good, I think it's on me. It would have been hard to interpret the first few words of my message as any way but hostile, I think.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

This is mostly a copy-paste from my comment in another post, but:

Dont literally not talk to the police.

Example: If you are at a car crash, and you literally remain silent and don’t verbally deny fault, the cops will assume its your fault (since the other driver will obviously deny fault) and the police report is say “[Your name] is at fault”, and that’s gonna fuck up the insurance claims. Always deny fault (but don’t make up false statements in the process of doing so).

Also, if you are in the US, and is a suspect of an alleged crime, don’t actually literally remain completely silent. You have to verbally invoke your 5th amendment rights to protect against court shenanigans.

Excerpt from wikipedia:

In June 2010, the Supreme Court ruled in Berghuis v. Thompkins that a criminal suspect must now invoke the right to remain silent unambiguously. Unless and until the suspect actually states that he is relying on that right, police may continue to interact with (or question) him, and any voluntary statement he makes can be used in court. The mere act of remaining silent is, on its own, insufficient to imply the suspect has invoked those rights. Furthermore, a voluntary reply, even after lengthy silence, can be construed as implying a waiver. The new rule will defer to police in cases where the suspect fails to assert the right to remain silent. This standard was extended in Salinas v. Texas in 2013 to cases where individuals not in custody who volunteer to answer officers’ questions and who are not told their Miranda rights. The Court stated that there was no “ritualistic formula” necessary to assert this right, but that a person could not do so “by simply standing mute”.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Explicit_invocation

Just say a simple phrase such as “I hereby invoke my 5th amendment right to silence, and I want to talk to a lawyer”. Or if not in the US, just leave out the “5th amendment” part.

(also, might be a good idea to have a few phone numbers of criminal defence attorneys memorized)

[–] [email protected] 54 points 2 days ago (5 children)
[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (7 children)

Not everyone has the privilege of being able to afford a lawyer and/or time off from work. There are plenty of jobs that won't let you interview if you've been arrested, even without a conviction.

If the police want to make your life miserable, it's very easy for them to do so with no consequences. Also, when you piss off a cop, they are probably going to take it out on the next person they interact with.

On the other hand, if you follow the advice posted, you're not going to give up any of your rights.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago

Yeah. They have a lot of leeway in how they deal with you, which is why I don't recommend "I don't answer questions" or being needlessly dickish to them. Some things, you need to draw the line, because getting arrested because they're pissed, and then released, is a hell of a lot better than saying some stuff which can get used later on to put you away on some real charges. But in general, there's no reason to make it a painful interaction, because they can also make it a painful interaction for you, in turn.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The third option is our German chancellor (Olaf Scholz). "I dont know where these Millions went." "I don't remember anything about that incident." "I don't recall sending or receiving these messages." "That evidence? No I don't remember this and I refuse to talk about it" If you ask any uncomfortable questions about corruption he just stays silent.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Or Senator Mitch McConnell.
"I do not recaaawwwwwwlllllll"

[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 days ago

There's a really big problem with this guidance. You may be in category 2 (i.e. a suspect) and not know it. They may also retroactively place you in that category, and everything you said can now be incriminating evidence

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 days ago (17 children)

Bad advice

Don’t talk to cops unless you are legally obligated to do so. Depending on the state you may have to identify yourself, and in some locations and contexts provide identification. You should know your local laws. In my state it is not required even if detained although in practice refusal to identify just means you aren’t going home for a looooong time. You do have to give your license if you’re stopped while driving, of course, but you do not have to answer any other questions other than signing the citation. The aclu has a website clearly outlining what you are required to do in each state including wallet sized cards with the information

Real police advice: if they’re giving you shit shut the fuck up. If they’re arresting you just go with it. You aren’t going to win. They’re going to call in 900 back up units and 2 helicopters with thermal imaging and a tank to track you because they’re basically an army now. The more you resist the more likely you die and become a sad headline that people post and forget about in 20 minutes. They aren’t trained to take you down safely. They aren’t trained to de escalate. They aren’t trained to control their anger. They will often get furious if you resist their authority and take out that aggression on you with extreme violence. They will slam you to the ground, choke you, punch you, beat you with their knock off tonfa, taze you repeatedly, and restrain you in ways that are dangerous and restrict your breathing. They will outright ignore you if you plead for help or become unresponsive. They will let you die, wait 5-10 minutes despite being on camera, then call for medical who will take another 10 minutes to respond to your long dead corpse that could’ve possibly been resuscitated 15 minutes ago if they hadn’t stood around doing nothing like ghouls. They have 0 serious repercussions for this behavior, at worst they’ll get shuffled around

Let them arrest you, shut the fuck up, and fight it in court. Unfortunately you will need resources to do this and pretty substantial ones. I just hired a lawyer to process documents for a subpoena against a client in my healthcare practice. It was a fairly simple case of document review and it cost $2300. Probably took him 45 minutes of actual work, if that. The system is unfair and rigged against you.

Real real police advice as a result: avoid them at all costs.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago
[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 days ago (14 children)

This is absolutely shit advice.

You are not obligated to talk to the police. The 25 word script:

  • “Why did you pull me over?”
  • “I’m not discussing my day.
  • “Am I being detained or am I free to go?”

If you are being detained, invoke the 5th amendment.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"Why did you pull me over?"

"Sir, we're here because your house was robbed."

"I'm not discussing my day"

"So you can't tell me what was stolen and don't want a police report for your insurance?"

"Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

"You're in your house, sir."

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

I had police called on me once. I was working for a homeowner while they were out of the country, and one of their neighbors called the police to report me being in the homeowners backyard.

I was watering their plants, by the way. But their neighbors might not have known or seen that since the backyard is behind the house and a fence.

Anyways, police showed up and took a few steps up the driveway to the side of the house where I was working and asked me if I was the homeowner. I politely said "No, I am not the homeowner." The officer gave me a look, to which I elaborated "I work for the homeowner, they are currently on vacation in [country name], and they asked me to water their plants for them." I was holding the water hose in my hand and the plants were wet on the side of the house he could see.

He was also polite, asked me for my ID which I presented, he took a picture of it on his phone and then took some notes. He asked me to hang out around the front of the home a bit because I think he may have been relaying information to dispatch, but then he came back and shook my hand and said "Thank you for being cooperative, I was on a call with the dispatch who told me the person who reported you said the homeowner was on vacation in [country name]. I don't want to take any more of your time, but hope you have a nice day and I already let dispatch know if anyone else calls about it to let them know you work for the homeowner." And that was that.

Be polite and respectful. Don't lie or be untruthful. You might not like the police, but they are still humans, treat them like humans. Purposefully making their job harder will never, ever end well for you.

Every citizen can choose for themselves if they wish to remain silent, and if you choose to do so you must say specifically that you exercise your right to remain silent. If you have to speak to the police for whatever reason after you said you exercise your right to remain silent, you are legally obligated to say you will continue to exercise your right to remain silent if you choose to continue to do so.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago (1 children)

sticking to “am i being detained” and “lawyer” works wonders got out a fucked situation with the first. Genuinely the biggest gang in the US, treat them as such

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