He's right.
Ukraine grows a LOT of grain. It's going to be a big problem when they stop providing Europe and the world.
this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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On a more cynical note: Ukraine grows a lot of Russian obituaries, which the EU doesn't have to, should they try to invade the Baltics once they are successful in Ukraine.
I'm not certain why your point was downvoted (maybe the wording confused people)... but folks may grumble about paying extra taxes to financially support the Ukrainian army but that does not even compare to the rage governments would face if they started sending volunteer or drafted troops to fight the frontline.
It's incredibly cynical of course - but if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Russia will not stop at Ukraine. They may stop at the Polish border, but the Baltic states are absolutely within Putin's gaze.
if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Insane. It pisses me off no end that we haven't given them the tools to not just defend their freedom, but to win. Fuck your fear of escalation. There are North Korean soldiers fighting a war of aggression in Europe.
Like how much more are we going to take?
all of it. Europe bought the lie of peace dividends, outsourced their defense to America, and elected weapons grade morons and co-conspirators like Burlesconi, Merkel and Orban, who opened the door for Putin to put Europe in a comprimising position once he decided to s tart shooting.
And now America wants out.
Europe's either going to have to prepare for war. or accept that Russia is going to get to do what it wants, and continue to ratfuck European politics with shit like Orban, Fico, and whatever the fuck BRUV is.
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Not a problem for Europe.
https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-11/efscm-assessment-autumn-2023_en.pdf
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Zelensky is correct, Putin is identical to, take your pick, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Franco and Tojo.
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Well, Trump is obviously not going to help anyone but himself. But that doesn't mean Europe is doomed. Plenty of nuclear weapons in Europe. If anything, everyone's doomed.
Nukes: Nobody is as doomed as all of us.
People sure do like to act like France isn't one of the most nuclear armed nations
We built NATO for this while goddamn reason, Kyiv just wasn’t available as a signatory at that time. It is now. Use the opportunity, before the USA is able to thwart it due to our current Foothold situation
ukraine has the second largest military in europe. if trump pulls the us out of nato, it may suddenly become an issue.
Eastern Europe: "we know already, and they (pointing westwards) are starting to get it".
The ones that really don't get it are former Warsaw pact areas like Hungary, Slovakia and Serbia. Who actively SUPPORT Russia!
Not really. Europe's army is "small" because we have not been drafted.
Populations:
- Europe: 450 million
- Russia: 150 million
- Ukraine: 35 million
Defending countries will draft most of their people, while the attackers draft far less. Countries that are not at war will simply not draft and will have a natural army size. (Which protects the country until people get drafted and trained)
There's no reason to compare apples and pears here.
Europe's population is ~744m.
EU's population is ~450m. Not Europe's.
However you'd also have to account for the population of all NATO countries, minus potentially the US, were it to come to a conflict against its members.
Yes I meant EU. Which I think was what Zelensky meant. Russia is part of Europe the continent anyways.
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I think we should help Ukraine, but Russia would get their clock cleaned by European NATO (even without US).
Regardless, I’d rather we not test that theory. It doesn’t matter which side wins, we all would lose.
As long as the nuke is dropped on my head, I don't care.
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Putin has said as much, it is why he constantly reminds everyone of his nuclear arsenal and apparent willingness to end the world over small matters.
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and Europe would take catastrophic casualties in doing so.
America is an ocean away, and doesn't have to worry about war on their soil.
Europe on the other hand, can you honestly say that society is ready for events like Bucha on their soil? a Russian brigade breaks through the line, gets bogged down,isnt able to advance any further, so decides to loot , rape and mass murder the population before retreating?
Bucha and Mariupol is why the entire NATO strategy changed. it used to be that the baltics would effectively be surrendered temporarily while the European backbone mobilized, France Germany Poland etc. But thats no longer an option because intelligence knows that the Russian Soldiery, for lack of a better term, act like savage ghouls. and will put innocent men women and children to the sword for no reason other than spite.
and failing that, they will bomb a city to dust like they did to Mariupol, Bakhmut, and so many others
One thing Russia has infintely more experience than Europe, its people are used to the realities of war, Martial law, no rights, Resource scarcity, No protesting. they just behave like lemmings now. Its sad, but its an advantage.
European populations would be calling for an armistice and selling out countries on the periphery as soon as it started because they dont want to go to war.
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I understand what he's saying, and there is a good point to it, and i am not trying to brag, but...
Europe has the real weapons, Russia has mostly 1960 weapons left. Europe has jets that will very quickly give Europe air superiority. It has a good 4 years to prepare, Russia has broken half its teeth on Ukraine. The only advantage that the Russian army has now that it has a log of soldiers with heavy combat experience, but Europe has the advantage that it has been seeing for 4 years how Russians do their job and so far that job had been abysmal. They can barely hold their own against Ukraine troops, how are they supposed to hold their own against much more military personnel with much better weapons?
Unless things change, and ignoring nukes, once you have air superiority, that's it, the other party is pretty much done for. Europe would not have to play by the rules that the Ukraine is playing by right now, they can and will take the fight to Russian territory.
A Russian invasion into the rest of Europe would be disastrous for Europe but it would be terminal for Russia. It would end either with Putin dead and Russia under control of Europe, or it would end with nukes which would automatically drag the entire world into WWIII after whcih we can all enjoy the fun again of living in the middle ages for the following hundred years or so.
This also ignores that, with the current abhorrent state of the Russian army as it is, they still gotta defend their own territory and they have half an actual super power sitting right next door that would also love to take bits and pieces of it. In the state they currently are, how are they going to do that, and then also take enough to defend Europe? Putin may be a dictator, but he too had to deal with popularity, and hoe populair you think he'll be once he needs to do two or three new draft rounds to get enough people to fight his wars?
I don't see a European invasion happening, it'd be the same mistake as Hitler invading Russia back then
This is such deluded patriotism it should be coming from an american.
Russia wouldn't invade "Europe", they would invade, say, Moldova (which is their actual plan). Is Germany going to commit troops to defend Moldovian soil? They aren't for Ukraine. What about the UK? France? Will they send their vaunted jets and soldiers? There's material being given to Ukraine, and intelligence, and all kinds of backroom advice, and how much of it will stop once Trump takes us out of NATO? Can europe pick up the slack? Are you going to rally together and strike Russia to stop them building up, or will the russian backed neofascist parties that are on the rise in every country seize power before you have the chance?
You should be really, really worried, because the odds are that your country spends less than 2% of it's GDP on it's military. How long do you think that you're going to be able to hold out against Russia, alone, with that?
A good read: GILES, Keir, 2024. Who Will Defend Europe?. 24 October 2024. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9781911723486.
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