this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024

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253

Luigi Mangione indicted on murder and terror-related charges in UnitedHealthcare CEO killing (www.nbcnewyork.com)

submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

93 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Previously the reporting on this did not have a political angle and so it was removed from Politics and correctly directed to News.

The charges related to terrorism now give this a political angle.

"Luigi Mangione is accused of first-degree murder, in furtherance of terrorism; second-degree murder, one count of which is charged as killing as an act of terrorism; criminal possession of a weapon and other crimes."

The terrorism statutes can be found here:

https://criminaldefense.1800nynylaw.com/ny-penal-law-490-25-crime-of-terrorism.html

"The act must be committed with the intent to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion."

(page 2) 44 comments

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

New York Penal Law § 490.25, the crime of terrorism, is one of the most serious criminal offenses in New York State. The statute defines the crime of terrorism as any act that is committed with the intent to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion and that results in one or more of the following: (a) the commission of a specified offense, (b) the causing of a specified injury or death, (c) the causing of mass destruction or widespread contamination, or (d) the disruption of essential infrastructure.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yup, and murder is one of the specified offenses under (a).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Note the OR between coerceing the public and coerceing government. He coerced the public by murdering on the street. Doesn't have anything to do with the government.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Coercing the population to do something about the CEOs, coercing the government to do something about health policy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

No. In this case they are arguing that the intent was to frighten people on the street. They spoke about it during the press conference. The insurance companies, health policy, etc will not play a part. In fact, the judge will probably prohibit its mention in a murder trial. That's a subject for you guys. Anyway, it has nothing to do with politics

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Terrorism is, by definition, a political action. Charging him with terrorism makes it political.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.[1]"

There's no question that the killing was ideological. I think where the charge has the potential to fall apart is "non-combatant".

If you argue that the CEO pushing the rejection of insurance claims is causing death, does that make them a "non-combatant"? 🤔

Where it becomes a slippery slope is that this is the same excuse the "pro-life" movement uses for the targeted killing of abortion doctors, and they use the same tactics. Doxing, distributing hitlists, etc.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

It pertains to a New York law above. The legal charge is defined.I would hope a judge would not consider an argument about what it is outside the parameters of what is written in the law.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Oh, I'm not thinking about the JUDGE, I'm thinking about the JURY.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The judge explains the law to the jury, along with the idea that they shouldn't apply their own standards for meaning as you do.

I think it won't get to a jury anyway. I have a hunch that he'll plead guilty at some point. Like his idol Ted Kaczynski did. I think a jury would be bad for him in any case. Manhattan has the world's largest concentration of FIRE (Financial, Insurance, Real Estate) employees.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It will definitely be interesting to see where it goes, it looks like he's got expensive representation, and they're already fighting extradition.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Again, that's not what is being reported. What is being reported is that he'll wave extradition and be in NY very soon. I find this story mildly interesting, but not to the point where I want to be bombarded by every jackass tat wants to provide a take for the clicks.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Currently, he's fighting extradition:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/12/10/nyregion/unitedhealthcare-ceo-luigi-mangione

"“He is contesting it,” said his lawyer, Thomas Dickey."

Will he waive it? Probably. I don't see how contesting it will be successful.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

I have a bit of an advantage in this regard due to the fact I watch NYC TV. There is no question he'll be retuning to NYC as NY has now submitted the paperwork. Fighting extradition does nothing for him.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (2 children)

As happy as it made everyone with a brain: That was definitely the legal definition of terrorism (if he did it).

From a quick google, criminal possession of a weapon is because NY has laws against ghost guns (3d printed firearms).

Don't get the logic on both first and second degree for blapping the same guy though.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago

Eh. I really don't consider insurance CEOs to be human. If you so thoroughly abandon your own humanity, why should we even legally consider you a human being anymore? As such, I would argue that it's no more possible to murder an insurance CEO than it's possible to murder a cardboard box. Hell, at least a cardboard box does some minimal good for the world. Frankly, Thompson's doing more good for the world as worm food than he ever did as a CEO. I consider the worms feeding on Thompson to be more human than Thompson himself. Does Thompson technically have a family? Sure, but so do the worms.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

Throw the book, see what sticks. First degree in NY is very narrow IIRC.

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