this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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politics

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago (1 children)

No amount of endorsement or support will ever stop the democrats from shitting on bernie. Bernie doesn't even want to replace capitalism, he wants to save capitalism from itself. But even that is way over the line for blue conservatives.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago

Bernie doesn’t even want to replace capitalism, he wants to save capitalism from itself.

Roosevelt style liberalism only works when you have a full blown leftist movement to triangulate against. Sanders doesn't have anything like that to leverage. There is not Eugene Debbs running from prison with a million voters backing him up.

Of course, it should be noted how much Harris lags Dems in every swing state. He's really hauling dead weight here. And it's not helping his own popularity.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago

Easily. Trump would be worse, and any vote not for Kamala is effectively a vote for Trump. If you think otherwise you are deluding yourself.

[–] [email protected] 226 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

This is persuasion done correctly. "I understand how you are feeling. Israel's crimes and US support of them should be important to all of us. You aren't wrong to have your reservations, and I agree change is needed. That being said, please let me tell you why it's important to participate." No insults, readily apparent empathy, and a sound argument.

[–] [email protected] 87 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (23 children)

People have been doing exactly that since back when we were trying to somehow get Biden to win.

The message isn't the thing. It is the speaker. Because even the tankiest of tankies are going to be wary of insulting Sanders in front of their audience. And this is why celebrity endorsements matter.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (41 children)

Edit: I'm changing my stance on how common this is after a few hours looking at top election posts and comments across boards. The abuse definitely exists, but in most places it WASN'T at the top. While "vote bullying" happens, I was wrong about how much support it gets. I'm happy to be wrong and glad to see that people usually are pretty decent about presenting their arguments. I still think OP's article shows how people should be convinced.

I get what you are saying and half-agree. ~~Where I respectfully disagree is that people have always been this reasonable.~~ By writing "this is how it's done correctly, with respect and logic" I'm juxtaposing Sen. Sander's approach vs. "vote with us or else you're -insert insult here-" posts, comments, and memes. I've seen ~~tons of~~ some attempts to dehumanize or discredit critics of Biden/Harris/Dems on Lemmy and other platforms. You are right that ~~some~~ most have always tried to be empathetic and civil.

I also agree high-profile endorsements matter. That bugs me a little bit because I think arguments should succeed or fail on their own merits and not reputation. But I know I'm a consciously "have no heroes" person because I believe everyone is fallible. I definitely have people I respect a lot, but no one that I'll agree with all the time.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago

And this is why celebrity endorsements matter.

Good call. When your "role model" (for lack of a better term) takes a position on something, it tends to give it more credence to the target audience.

I have a great deal of respect for Bernie Sanders, so his words carry some weight with me. He is being a voice of reason.

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Finally! Not the video link! Thank you!

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 week ago

I love Bernie. Clearest speaker ever

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 week ago (2 children)

AOC had a similar response on Pod Save America.

You win political influence by being a crucial part of a win. You lose political influence if your political opponents are in office. The best chance to have your voice heard on Israel is being a crucial part of a Harris win.

That is the calculation.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 6 days ago (2 children)

AOC calculations indicate that she supports corporations over the rail union workers.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago

And your calculations are you get off of losing and even people who agree with you on almost everything aren't good enough to stop you from trying to lose more influence.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

If AOC's too Capitalist for ya I got bad news about 95% of America.

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