this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2024
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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I'm getting sick every day at this Microsoft Windows slowness and bloat. I am trying to use as much Linux VMs as possible. I feel so unproductive on Windows. I also tried installing Linux on the office laptop. The problem is that Windows is officialy supported and the Linux is DYI. Once the IT departament changes it will sync up with Windows but Linux can be broken and you are no longer able to work. Next job I want to have full Linux laptop or at least Mac.

Besides:

  • Microsoft Office
  • Active Directory
  • Some proxy and VPN bullshit

Everything seems manageable and even better on Linux.

What is your experience?

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (5 children)

Windows 11, and the group policies doesn't allow us to use WSL. We also can't directly SSH into any servers so we have to go trough a Citrix session to a Windows 10 "admin server" and then SSH or RDP to a Linux server. And Windows Terminal isn't installed on the Windows 10 server, so it's either CMD or the Powershell terminal.

It's absolutely fucking miserable. I'm a Linux sysadmin who do a lot of automation (ansible etc) but also Python development. Try it yourselves and see how long you last! I'm jumping the fucking ship in a month though, thank the gods.

All the result of an over confident "security organization", with a lot of hubris.

But the best part? It's a $5000 work laptop, and my 6 year old Thinkpad (with Linux) runs laps around the thing any day of the week. Opening the file explorer takes, most of the time, 5+ seconds...

Fuck my life, and fuck this company.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I have several clients with this kind of setup. I'm always baffled at the amount of hoops I have to go through to connect to my Linux server. Sometimes I have to remote desktop to a windows virtual desktop and then use the citrix session to another windows machine VIA BROWSER so I can finally ssh to the machine. Are they trying to bore attackers to death?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

LOL

They are trying to bore only your customers, attackers have direct access (=

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

Oh my that sounds even worse than at my company. I don't understand also why disallow WSL. And yeah I don't think that this is laptop's fault anymore, just has been enshititifacted with software bloat.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

But the best part? It's a $5000 work laptop, and my 6 year old Thinkpad (with Linux) runs laps around the thing any day of the week. Opening the file explorer takes, most of the time, 5+ seconds...

In my previous job I was doing Java development on e-commerce (Hybris, then renamed to SAP Commerce) and the laptop (a beefy thinkpad) took ages from powering on to being able to work, also Java compilation could take 30 min and just starting up the project on local another 5.

Had the opportunity to install Linux (the policy was that dual boot was required and don’t disturb IT with Linux issues) and oh boy, from turning on to being able to work was incredible fast. Compiling went from 30 to 5 min (with same Java official version from oracle in order to avoid any implementation discrepancies between openjdk and the oracle JDK in prod), and starting tje local server went from have enough time for preparing a coffee to seconds.

Unfortunately my current job only allows Windows and the policies are too strict.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

I nearly threw up reading first paragraph 😂

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

Software dev here. The only Linux I ever hear of at my job is Open shift. That's about it. We are neck deep into windows. And honestly, I don't care. It's a job and my bills are paid. My house is full of Linux, and I don't care what a big corporation wants to use for their software.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

True but I miss quickness of Linux, being native with my apps and just having my environment. I don't think I ever gotten a nice working environment as it is constant struggle. On Linux I can say it's good enough.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

MacOS. Systems doesn’t want to support Linux, and the only other option is windows 11. A few of my coworkers have Win11 with WSL and fight it every single day. They’re diehard windows people who have been seriously considering moving to MacOS for their next round of upgrades.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Same here. I really really tried with WSL but the experience is miserable.

Swapped to MacOS and like night and day. I'd be perfectly happy with a £300 linux laptop though.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

What about the experience is miserable? I’m just curious as I really like it.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Also Mac here. I started with a linux laptop but still have to do some desktop support work for the company and since they all use Mac it's just easier to dogfood it. At least I have a decent terminal emulator.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't use Windows anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those "Linux purists", if other people wanna use Windows, go ahead. But I'm not using it. I swear to god, if it becomes mandatory to use Windows at my company, I'm leaving the next day.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Hah I don't have that privilege but same mindset. It is weird to me that in many companies you were deprived of choice at least. Linux can be worse too but let me just try it and see.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The reason that most companies don't want you to do that is because they don't want people running around installing their own OS and doing whatever they feel like on company devices.

Letting people do that would be an IT and information security nightmare.

It's the same reason that no (sane) company would give local admin privileges to everyone.

The reason why companies generally don't have an official way to use Linux is because it's hard to support two platforms simultaneously. Especially when you have, certificate and/or AD network authentication for wireless and wired like we do. You also need to consider how the two platforms should interact with each other. For example Linux devices should be able to connect to the AD domain with Kerberos and need to be able to access SMB shares and probably other systems.

In short it's more complicated than "just let me try".

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

i use a linux laptop; but then they got bought out and our new overlords won't let me get another one.

i've had it for 5 years now since i didn't want switch to mac during the last 2 refresh periods; but it's only a matter of time before it dies.

i think i'll just switch jobs when it does. lol

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

Mac is still better evil than Windows but same thinking.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

Wdym with linux can be broken?

Don't mess woth the system and go atomic. Fedora atomic kde or gnome or wm

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

Wdym with linux can be broken?

Linux mint kept harassing me to install the official drivers for my wireless card, so I did. It broke my ability to use WiFi.

I told Linux while in presentation mode I did not want the screen to sleep, it took that as sleep after 5 minutes.

Every time the laptop sleeps/restarts my screen resolution is borked, half the time the correct resolutions are not available and I have to disconnect all my monitors, restart, then connect the monitors.

Most solutions I hear are use a different distro, learn command line, you should not be using Linux if you cannot fix this stuff.

That is what i mean when I say Linux can be broken.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

Those things happen on windows as well

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

Lol i think most of us Linux people just forget how basic most peoples computer usage is. An example, i wanted a program yesterday. Im on Manjaro and it was a .deb so i had to look it up in the AUR, clone it, compile and install it. All in command line. To someone who is used to that its not a big deal just some copy and paste and searching. To someone who is used to windows where you download .exe, and click install thats a herculean task.

I disagree that people shouldnt use linux if they cant fix stuff on their own etc. I fully support making some distros entirely GUI and really easy to use because some people just need that and theres nothing wrong with not wanting to get all into the weeds setting up a computer. Thats the whole point of distros is to have various options for different use cases. I hope youll be able to find a linux setup that works for what you need. As of now a little bit of terminal may be needed even in the easier to use distros depending on what your doing tho.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

My current company is being absorbed into a much larger company right now, got bought out earlier this year.

I was the only IT for the smaller company, and I was using 100% Linux (Debian with KDE Plasma) on my laptop to administrate everything in our environment, which is mostly Windows.

  • Our DC with AD on it, I used Remmina to RDP into it for admin tasks.
  • O365 and Azure/Entra stuff was all in the browser.
  • Our ERP system is cloud-based, so browser was fine for that too.
  • Our access control system was cloud-based and the RFID card reader/writer was plug-n-play on Linux.
  • Our company SMB share worked fine with Linux in Plasma using my AD credentials.
  • I set up my company OneDrive sync using rclone, it also worked flawlessly.
  • Our Fortigate firewall VPN has a native Linux app which, although ugly as sin, works without issue.
  • I used OnlyOffice for a while, then switched back to LibreOffice. Both worked basically perfect, a few very minor font bugs, (bullet lists having a slightly different style for the bullets, etc.)
  • Teams, I used a wrapper flatpak for a while, which worked fine, then switched to the browser version of Teams. No major issues, I had a bunch of meetings, screen shares, webcam, presentations all on Teams in Linux, pretty seamless.
  • Email, Outlook in the browser is fine. I also used Thunderbird for a bit, but didn't like how buggy it was in the Flatpak version, and the Debian package was way too out of date for my taste.

Now that we got bought out, I am being forced off my Linux laptop and onto the new company's Windows laptop, which really sucks. I am planning on quitting soon, as I hate using Windows and I am very underpaid at my current job as it is. Only real perk was not having to report to any IT manager/CTO, and being able to use Linux.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Mixed environment, bunch of windows servers and a bunch of Linux servers. I currently run NixOS on my company owned Framework laptop, with the caveat that I have to deal with or work around any weirdness that comes up.

I've been wanting for a while now to fix up my config (weird sleep waking issues, broken hibernate, implement full disk encryption) or maybe switch to Fedora. Just haven't had the time.

Remmina is great for RDP, OnlyOffice preserves Microsoft office formatting well, KDE's network manager has working VPN connections for Cisco and Palo Alto, and I do a lot from the browser (email, O365 admin,etc).

There is friction, though. As mentioned the sleep issues. Never fun getting to a site and finding a hot, dead laptop in my bag because it decided to wake up and not go back to sleep.

For things that HAVE to be done in Windows I have a VM I haven't powered on in a months or two, and a "tech" server to rdp to with more network access.

I'd also like to get more familiar with Nix. I can handle system settings and packages from the Nix repositories, but packaging my own software is something I'd like to learn (software and printer drivers for Ubuntu/fedora, etc).

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

the sleep issues.

Ah, the life of a sysadmin

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

MacOS, nearly everyone who does anything with development or ops is using a MacBook. Though lately more “normal” employees have been getting MacBooks too.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Yes, I use Fedora and love to break the permissions of shared Office-Documents. /s

The only thing I have learned is not to go too deep into customisation. Because people watching me using hyprland are some kind of disgusted.

I just use KDE with dark breeze theme. That's enough and nobody gets hurt.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

Trueee Just get the job done and that's all.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Can you elaborate? Why are people disgusted by Hyprland?

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

When I got into the company I was allowed to use Linux. But a few years ago the company was bought and merged with a much bigger company and the new IT policy made Windows mandatory.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

I'm sorry for your loss.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Previous job: Windows, because it was a company issued laptop. Plus a lot of the company was built around the MS ecosystem.

Current job: Linux, because I got to keep the perfectly decent Dell laptop when I left. I wanted to make sure I purged everything, so it's running LMDE now. Plus, there's not much outlook and teams stuff that I have to use.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

Great! However I think you are lucky one.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Right now I'm stuck on a Mac laptop. I hate it, but after our Network team could not manage to get Global Protect working on Linux, and my boss decided keeping them happy was easier than keeping me productive, I didn't have much choice (Mac or Windows). I've worked in environments before where I was able to run Linux on my laptop/workstation, so long as I was able to support myself and do the required work. I used remote desktop (Or a Windows VM) for my Windows work; my browser and Java for most everything else. Now even Office is a shitty webapp for the most part, and Teams "works" on Linux (As much as Teams works at all).

Even here, I have to wait until Helpdesk manages to build out support for new Mac OS releases, so I'm still on 14.6.

I told them prior that I would be leaving the company if they forced me to migrate to Mac. I'm currently looking for a better position elsewhere and will tell them exactly why when I turn in my notice. Not that it will change anything, it'll help me feel better.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What are your experience?

My last "real" Windows experience was with WinXP and every time I have to touch Windows at the PC of a customer, which happens sometimes when the stars align, I feel like the first human that ever walked the earth.

I have no idea how people get any work done on a system that is constantly nagging for attention, popups, restrictive Enterprise environment and non descriptive error messages. Nothing in this world seems to make sense or is presented in a unified way. Every dialogue or sub system seems to be it's own isle stemming from another decade of tech. The experience for someone who is simply not used to Windows any more due to missing exposure is horrible.

Heck a Mac feels alien to me too but in the end that's still a system I could deal with given some time.

Mebbe I'm spoiled by stuff like systemd, PipeWire, Wayland, btrfs and all that candy we get nowadays on a Linux desktop. I'm not even talking about privacy or FOSS principles at this point. Just the fact that the system doesn't get in my face with ads or AI or "very important reboots" seems to be a revelation in 2024.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I'm currently more of an generic sysadmin than linux admin, as I do both. But the 'other stuff' at work runs around teams, office, outlook and things like that, so I'm running a win11 with WSL and it's good enough for what I need from a workstation. There's technically a policy in place that only windows workstations are supported, but I suppose I could run linux (and I have separate laptop for linux-only stuff). At the current environment it's just not worth the hassle, spesifically since I need to maintain windows servers too.

So, I have my terminals, firefox and whatever I need and I also have the mandated office-suite, malware protection/IDR/IDS by the book and in my mindset I'm using company tools for company jobs. If they take longer, could be more efficient or whatever, it's not my problem. I'll just browse my (personal) cellphone while the throbber spins on the screen and I get paid to do that.

If I switched to linux I'd need to personally take care of my system to meet specs and I wouldn't have any kind of helpdesk available should I ever need one. So it's just simpler to stick with what the company provides and if it's slow then it's not my headache and I've accepted that mindset.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I manage the few linux servers at my company. I use a windows laptop to ssh to my servers. Windows for me is fine, but I do very little on it outside of ssh or emails. However, I would never use windows outside of this.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I use office 360 in the browser.
I'm not a typical sysadmin but I use linux anyway. Somehow I always found some workarounds, but I am also not the only one using Linux in our company so the IT needs to work with us to some degree.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

After using WSL for 6 years to do 99% of my work, our IT finally started to support Linux, so I re-imaged my notebook immediately. It's not perfect and we do have some mandatory security and backup solutions that slow things down a bit, but the good news is that they allow us to re-nice them, so it's not that big of a deal. The biggest challenge is Libre Office versus MS Office, because things don't always convert the formatting correctly, but it's still worth the hasle to avoid Windows PITA issues.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

Not a sysadmin, but a programmer. My work machines have been:

  • 2003-2008 Windows 7
  • 2008-2011 Ubuntu
  • 2011-2019 Arch
  • 2019-2024 NixOS

Probably going to keep using NixOS. This is a very cool OS.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Using linux hardware, pretty much one of the requirements for my job, otherwise I look elsewhere. For RDP the only downside being wayland not working with it, so you have to stay with X11.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

When I could get away with it at work, I did.

In the last.. I want to say six or seven years, issuing Macbooks to sysadmins has been a common thing in the sectors I work in. Rather than put up with us going rogue and messing up license tracking by rebuilding our stuff with a distro of choice, management just throws OSX at the problem (us, we're the problem) because operationally it's close enough for our purposes.

It's not my choice or preference, but the money's green.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

My work laptop is windows sadly. It has to run a bunch of endpoint sec stuff. I get it, but still sucks. On occasion I do dual boot (separate drive) when some update breaks something and I have to have a PC to fix something asap.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

Most places seem to issue Mac's now for the role. I just create a 90% cpu & memory Linux VM on them and work from within that, with the exception of teams or zoom meetings being native on the Mac (no echo cancellation on linux VM's, it seems). Works mostly well, but it is arm64 based linux, as the Mac's currently are M series.

Ended up going with Arch for arm64, as it had the simplest way to add widevine support to my browsers.

Much better than being native on the Mac... Mac doesn't give me the two select&paste linux 2nd copy buffer, doesn't provide focus follows mouse, no auto-raise, and type in partially covered windows without raise. Essential for my workflow.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

I'm in the lucky position that I always could work with Linux. I was working with people that couldn't be bothered to run Windows on their Desktops (administering mostly Linux Servers anyway). In my first job we had a "Standardized" Fedora desktop that was actually attached to our AD so you could log in at any desktop with your domain user. However we did have internal tools and some software requirement that only were available on Linux meaning everyone in our department had a Windows VM for using those tools (kinda overkill but ok). My last job we didn't have any standard other than the system had to be encrypted and had Eset installed other than that we could set it up he was we liked.

Could I work with a Windows desktop? Sure I'm on the Terminal sshing into systems 98% of the time anyway but at the end of the day I love to simply be on Linux having a workflow I'm used to.

Regarding Office I was just using Office online for anything that needed it.

Getting Linux Systems into AD is possible (but of course requires cooperation on the side of the IT department)

Proxy and VPN should mostly be doable (but of course might not be able to be deployed via Group policies)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Most of our sysads use macOS. A few use linux but they have limited choices with distros and can only use fedora I think.

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