Have you posted this over in [email protected] too? Maybe someone there has an idea.
this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2024
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I didn't know they existed. I'll post over there, thanks!
So...this is going to be lengthy, but it could be a few things from my experience with a large number of pepper plants this year, and dealing with higher than average heat.
- Don't water them at night, only in the morning BEFORE the heat kicks up.
- If they're getting constant sun from sun up to down, try shielding a few them from the afternoon sun to get a bit of rest
- try diluting a few tablespoons of Epsom Salt in a few gallons of water, and water around a few plants. This will help rule out magnesium deficiency, and not harm the plants much at this concentration.
- did you amend the soil before you planted these? This could just be an all around nutrient deficiency if last years were doing well, and this years aren't
- for the ones that's are doing well, are they more shaded? In looser soil? Any other obvious differences you can tell?
So we have been watering the entire garden at night when we do so. And they are getting most of the sun throughout the day. We have some really tall trees on the east side of the garden that block the sun until about 10am-ish. But the rest of the day is full sun.
did you amend the soil before you planted these?
We tilled before planting anything and then my wife put stuff into the soil as we did the transplant. I don't know what exactly, but she's pretty knowledgeable in the mineral/fertilizer side of things.
for the ones that's are doing well, are they more shaded? In looser soil? Any other obvious differences you can tell?
Nope, they're even right next to each other. Aside from how they were started (my own seeds vs seedlings from a garden centre) everything about the environment is identical.
Try switching to watering in the morning, but for some of these plants it may be a bit late for some of the plants. Watering at night usually leaves plants open to root rot, which this could possibly be. I'd also try the Epsom Salt, but limit it to just a few plants.
Thanks, I might give the Epson salt a try. How close is too close? I have about 2-3 feet between each row.
That should be fine. You want it to seep towards the root ball spread, not soak the roots in the mixture. It will slowly seep into the soil over a few days if you're doing top down watering, and you should see some quick improvements if that was an issue.
Your guess is correct. It's herbicide damage. Likely either 2,4-D or Dicamba. These are common ingredients in lawn broadleaf weed control agents.
When applied when it is hot, they tend to volatize and drift. Very low levels will cause the damage you are seeing.
The most common culprit is the slower release granular formulations.
Thanks for the info!
My wife said she put slow release fertilizer in when we transplanted them into the garden. Could that have anything to do with it?
We don't use any kind of herbicides or pesticides anywhere on our property.
The only thing we added to the garden this year was mulch and the thought occurred to me that something was in it, but every single other plant seems to be fine. The tomatoes were a tad stressed early in the season, but we had 30+ degree Celsius weather incredibly early in the season for almost two weeks that seemed to stress them, but otherwise they've grown well since and are producing a ton of tomatoes.
Every other vegetable plant is doing well. Onions, rhubarb, corn, carrots, cucumbers, potatoes, and a couple others I can't remember. So that makes me think there's nothing in the mulch itself.
Now my parents got a bunch of their peppers from one of the same places I got a few of my peppers from and they have the same issue. Is it possible the soil the garden centre used when starting the seeds was contaminated?
Lots of peppers do well in the heat as long as they have plenty of water. This looks like it could be leaf curl, though. I’m not qualified to diagnose anything, though. Start by giving them some more water, and maybe a little bit of tomato fertilizer.
That's the thing. We've been getting way more than seasonal averages for rain, and when there's more than two days of no rain, we put on the sprinkler for 20-30 min.
We also have about 4-6 inches of mulch on top to get the soil from drying out.
4-6 inches of mulch sounds like it might be too much.
That resource seems to be specific to trees. Just about every other gardening resource (blogs, websites, YouTube videos from respected gardeners) recommend at least a few inches of mulch.
A few is 2-3" or so :)
Here's the same information on a more plant agnostic site: https://www.levelgreenlandscaping.com/blog/five-mulching-mistakes-plus-the-right-way-to-do-it
I'm not saying too much mulch is your issue - especially if it's new and not compacted yet. It might be an issue in the future though.
Ya, you're right. I guess I should have been clearer with my description. Near the plants the mulch is thinner. At about 6 inches away is when the mulch is thickened.
I was told very explicitly by my wife to make a "depression" around each plant when putting the mulch down. Basically to make the mulch very thin near the plant.
I'll have to check tomorrow, but I'm thinking I may have put the mulch too close to some of the plants.
But the thing that still confuses me is that the ones we grew from seed are doing fine. It seems to only be the garden centre bought pepper plants that are bad.
Sometimes transplanted plants struggle to throw roots into the soil they’re placed into, especially if the soil isnt super loose amazing primo grade A soil.
I’ve had some plants that I’ve transplanted into shitty soil that struggle to root into the new soil and so kind of just fester at their current size, whereas plants sown directly into that soil grow better.
This is actually pretty common for me with my fish peppers when I use a soil that has too much fibrous wood content.
So I decided to sacrifice one of the gnarlier plants to see what I can find. Here are the images:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/N2XxkkY
The roots did shoot out beyond the bulb, there was a lot of pulling and tearing as I was lifting it out. But I also noticed that some of the stems are woody and brown. My neighbour said that she noticed the “stinging bugs” are exceptionally bad this year.
Yeah I always throw some potting soil with some slow fertilizer mixed in around the edge of the hole before the plant, before filling in after transplanting and honestly it's good to sorta mash down the roots a bit so they really press into the soil but absolutely transplanted plants are not a guarantee. Doubly so if the roots have all wrapped around the inside of the pot and looks bound.
Also definitely agree that too much wood is an issue. But I bet they were not getting enough water past the mulch and just couldn't get good root growth, with it being anaerobic and nitrogen removing from all the slow decomposing fresh wood mulch.
The fact that the issue follows the garden center plants is very interesting. Good luck! I hope you're able to get to the bottom of it.
Transplant shock? Did they overcome being transplanted first?
Yup, they were fine after being transplanted. It's just as they started to grow they got more and more gnarly. They also haven't grown anywhere close to how my peppers did last year. They are exceedingly small especially compared to the few that are doing well (the ones we started from seeds ourselves).
Honestly I think the roots never took right. Sounds like they still aren't getting enough moisture from not enough root structure and over exerting themselves trying to grow.
That and maybe a vitamin deficiency. Sounds like you put a lot of mulch down and I have read it can pull nitrogen back out.
The mushrooms should help but I think over watering with under developed roots. Give them some liquid fertilizer and back off the water a little. Definitely stop watering them at night when they can't use the water.
So you actually answered another question of mine I didn't ask, which is about the mushrooms. I know they're good, but I've been wondering if there's any significance with how close they are to the plants, and how crowded they are around it.
So I've been looking at as many example photos as I can, and I'm becoming less concerned about herbicide contamination and it's looking like a mineral/vitamin or some kind of management issue.
Another thing I noticed is that the lowest leaves (the oldest?) are fully formed, and it's only the newest ones are deformed. Does that track for nutrient issues?
It's been providing shade and you have been providing plenty of moisture for them to grow even on hot days. That and the incredibly spacious fresh wood mulch there is acting as a great grow medium for them.
Seriously that's was a lot of mulch and I question how deep you got those roots in actual soil.
New growth is pretty much always where you will see growth issues. You look to old for mold and pests. You could try shaking a leaf over white paper and checking for broad mites but I'm betting on roots. Maybe they got root bound in the pots.
So I decided to sacrifice one of the gnarlier plants to see what I can find. Here are the images:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/N2XxkkY
The roots did shoot out beyond the bulb, there was a lot of pulling and tearing as I was lifting it out. But I also noticed that some of the stems are woody and brown. My neighbour said that she noticed the "stinging bugs" are exceptionally bad this year.
Roots should be over 2 feet long on a healthy plant.
Looks like you probably had lateral growth trying to pull nutrients but wasn't getting deep enough to pull any real nutrients.
Stinging bugs are great and not the types that eat plants. They even often help eat the things eating plants. If you were seeing growth issues on the other peppers I'd say bugs but you aren't sonits likely the plant and seems like a root and nutrient deficiency.
I'd say still just top the offending plants and just burn or throw away the parts you clip. Then apply a generous glug of liquid fertilizer so it gets down through the 6 inches of mulch and then back off watering to every few days or more but water deep to get the roots fully damp.
No idea what your hardening schedule was compared to your homegrown stuff, but pull one up and see if the roots have expanded out or not.
Could be a root issue, and you gotta pull atleast one to figure it out anyways.