this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
537 points (87.7% liked)

Asklemmy

43788 readers
811 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy ๐Ÿ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (38 children)

Extreme leftists, A.K.A. "tankies" (i.e., apologists for Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the CCP, the DPRK, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Xi Jingping, etc.), are threats to a free, egalitarian, and open society, are just as violently authoritarian as their religious, corporatist, and fascist counterparts, and should be treated with the contempt, distrust, and ridicule they deserve.

They claim to speak and fight for the proletariat, promising a new utopia, never before seen, once their revolution executes the last "class-traitor". In practice, once they're finished with "seizing the means of production", they'll never relinquish control and become the new ruling class.

They'll assume the mantle of an enlightened elite post-revolutionary administration to guide the proletariat to their promised utopia of "each according to their need, each according to their ability". In practice, they'll "need the most, because they're obviously the most able" in reorganizing the economic and political structure of society. The utopia of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" will never exist, only the dictatorship of the "revolutionary party". Repression and execution await those who question their claims and decisions. The former champions of labor will become champions of death.

They're akin to the pigs in Animal Farm, the loudest voices in the revolution, but a bit "more equal" than everyone else after the farmer is done away with. Fortunately, the pigs, like the farmer, got their comeuppance in the end of the story.

Your liberty and self-determination are beset by many threats: the religious, the nihilists, the corporatists, the fascists, and the supposed collectivists. They all claim to be the true authoritative "voice of the people".

Beware of their cults. Your life is worth more than their "cause" and/or "solution". Understand what they really are; power over everything, forever, is what they seek. They want you either as a willing pawn or dead, just like all the other presumably benevolent dictators throughout history. Arm yourself with knowledge and clarity in perception. Train your mind and body. Fight and deny the peddlers of arbitrary authoritarianism as if your life depends on it - because it does.

E: Lots of butt-hurt invertebrate Molotov-sippy-cup-throwing wannabe-dictator tankie shit-heels out there, all tryna start the revolution tomorrow. Good luck, comrades.๐Ÿ–•๐Ÿฝ

[โ€“] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

As soon as you have any actual answer on how to demonstrably improve peoples' lives and do this either within this system in a way that they'll let you, or without this system in a way that they won't assassinate you, I'm with you. I'm serious about that. But you don't have an answer, I already know, because all I see is posturing and arm chair theorizing.

Edit for Michael Parenti who ofcourse has absolutely amazing things to day on the issue: https://youtu.be/6gtUaGV6mNI?feature=shared

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

As soon as you have any actual answer on how to demonstrably improve peoples' lives and do this either within this system in a way that they'll let you, or without this system in a way that they won't assassinate you, I'm with you.

If we're talking about the United States, the "answer" is historically clear: collective action, the spread and dissemination of the history of the labor movements, what our laws say about capital and labor today, what our personages in government's rhetoric is about labor, when the next elections are for their office, and how to organize, starting locally and building to the state and federal level. Kind of like what's happening now.

If violence and aggression occur, be extremely wary of how quickly it can lead to purges and an even darker more authoritarian system, even if the religious, fascists, and/or corporatists are defeated. The pigs who squeal the loudest about how they're the voice of the people tend to be quickest to put people's backs against the wall.

This was my original point. Your whataboutism is expected and is boring.

all I see is posturing and arm chair theorizing.

This is exactly what I see and hear when I talk to the latest Bolshevik boot-lickers who pass themselves as experts on Marxist theory, capital and labor, history, and how to depose the government of the US.

[โ€“] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

At least those people are looking at places where actual revolutions happened and were sustained. Contrary to the US, where unions get busted, action groeps cointelpro-d, leaders assassinated, police violence used, and only the threat of the USSR to gain any social progress. And where QoL is on a steady decline? Please give me a better example.

Furthermore, historically, no one socialist nation has ever existed without being under continuous attack from those very forces - religious, fascists, corporatists, so I don't know what your on about. You're clearly passionate but I read your comments as incredibly idealistic to a fault.

Edit: and what's happening now is the very likely possibility of a 2nd Trump administration and this insane 2025 plan they're cooking up. So I don't even know where you are getting your information.

[โ€“] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Please give me a better example.

You're clearly passionate but I read your comments as incredibly idealistic to a fault.

Edit: and what's happening now is the very likely possibility of a 2nd Trump administration and this insane 2025 plan they're cooking up. So I don't even know where you are getting your information.

Hopefully this will be abundantly clear and we can both move on with our lives:

I'm not here to give examples of whatever vague (and very predictable) whataboutism tactic you throw at me and get caught up in some pointless argument with you on a meme thread.

My original point in answering this meme question posed by OP is to not trust authoritarian tankies who historically, time and again, purge their luckless proletariat "allies" after deposing the original authoritarians to retain a stranglehold on power and bring about an even darker and bloodier regime after they co-opt and hijack any mass political movement they can sink their parasitic little tankie dictator teeth into.

I don't care if you don't believe that.

Just like how neo-nazis think the Holocaust wasn't real, plenty of tankies believe the USSR never really invaded Poland the same time Nazi Germany did. Or the purges in Ukraine weren't that bad. Or not that many people died during the invasion of Tibet. Or in the Cultural Revolution. Or Tienanmen Square. History from multiple non-western sources have a lot to say about the so-called authoritarian left. You can start with The Kulak Archipelago.

When I said "what's happening now", I'm referring to recent labor union victories all over the United States that have been documented in the news.

Though you might be, I'm not a Bolshevik true-believer (obviously) and I'm done with the authoritarian Kool-Aid. I'm old enough to recognize wannabe jack-booted thugs and dictator ball-garglers pretty easily nowadays. It's not that hard, they're everywhere from just about every economic and political stripe.

The only thing that ties them all together is when they say something along the lines of "tHe true VerSiON oF __________ HASN't BEeN Tried YeT", while glossing over the historic oceans of blood on their ideology's hands.

And as soon as you mention any of that? "wHatAboUt ________ism aND tHEIr blAh BLaH BlaH blAH?"

Whatever point you're trying to prove, you're not going to convince me. I used to be pretty hard Auth-Left myself, back in the day. I've left that cult in the dumpster where it belongs. You're either trying to catch me in some "gotcha" circle-jerk, or are too butt-hurt about me condemning tankies to remember what the original point of OP's thread was, or are just really dense.

You go your way, rhetorically fellate whatever autocrat-of-the-week your heart desires, and I'll go mine, and, hopefully, we won't ever have to meet in real life.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You clearly care, deeply. I look forward to reading something you write on the subject, or to see you organise.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

In the United States, I was part of IATSE. Now, due to my wife's health diagnosis I live in the Netherlands.

Writing about Authoritarian cultists will only remain a hobby. Far better men have written far more important pieces on the matter.

load more comments (36 replies)