this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
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Science Memes

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Honey (mander.xyz)
submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (18 children)

I think that's actually a very valid point. What level of involvement in producing the food makes it vegan or not vegan? If eating honey is unethical I would think so is eating food produced by the hard work of another person.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (17 children)

What level of involvement in producing the food makes it vegan or not vegan?

It's about A) exploitation and B) harming the animal.

Pollination is done by all kinds of insects, but they are part of our ecosystem and happen to be pollinating the plants that we eat. We don't breed them, we don't kill them (pesticides, sure), we simply coexist.

Honey isn't vegan because we breed the bees, take their food and often kill the entire hive because they get sick and cannot survive winter without their honey. It's also not sustainable, because honey bees are being bred en masse and are pushing out native pollinators that are highly specialized in certain kinds of plants, causing them to go extinct.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 weeks ago (7 children)

Sounds like it's not the honey it's the production system, so honey from wild bees would be vegan. Okay.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

No, because it comes from an animal. Honey can never be vegan.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Apparently there are conflicting standards.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Honey is an animal product and so is avoided by vegans. Bees produce honey for themselves, not for humans. They are often harmed in the honey gathering process. There are plenty of ways to protect insect populations, support crop pollination, conserve the environment and sweeten our food without farming bees or buying honey, propolis, beeswax or royal jelly. To replace honey in your diet, try golden or maple syrup, date syrup, agave nectar or even dried fruits. For more information read our page on the honey industry. 

Source: https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/general-faqs

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That's fine, but this organization isn't the same as saying "vegans" any more than the Catholic Church is the same as saying "Catholics". The church disapproves of birth control, extramarital sex and a lot of other things Catholics commonly do. I'm sure there are endless debates about whether individual vegans are vegan enough.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Using animal products is not vegan.

Edit:

The comparison doesn’t apply here as using honey goes against the very definition of veganism.

”Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

Source: https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Following the pope's dictums is the very definition of Catholicism. As a former Catholic myself, the comparison seems entirely apt. Clearly we disagree. Continuing to just say "No U!" seems like the kind of pointless waste of time that belongs on reddit.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Anyone who claims they’re vegan when they’re consuming honey is lying.

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