this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
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Science Memes

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Honey (mander.xyz)
submitted 3 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 30 points 3 weeks ago (25 children)

Reasons that I, as a vegan, do not use honey:

  1. I cannot guarantee that the bees consented to their product being harvested. Some beekeepers clip the queen's wings, which can prevent the colony from leaving.

  2. I cannot guarantee that bees were not harmed in the process of harvesting (potentially getting crushed by the honeycomb frames, for example) or in the process of controlling the colony (like clipping the queen's wings).

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

Bees can kill their queen and make a new one no problem.

If the colony would want to move away they would just do that. I don't think clipping the queen wings would do nothing.

But I doubt any beekeeper colony would want to move as they are keep at a perfect environment so they can produce more honey that they would actually need to survive. Even industrial ones. It's part of basic beekeeping that bees must be in a good place so they produce the most honey.

Hurt of mistreated bees would not produce honey. If they are mistreated the try to leave (and as stated they can just kill their Queen if she is crippled), they eat all the honey, or just die.

Bees are really complicate to get advantage of. Our relationship with them need to be symbiotic to work.

Not trying to convince anyone to consume honey if they don't want to. As it's basically just sugar so whatever.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Bees can kill their queen and make a new one no problem.

This doesn't make the mutilation of the queen bee any less bad. It's still harming the bee. I am not aware if a bee has the ability to make an informed decision on whether to kill the queen and relocate, so I cannot make an informed decision about whether the bees actually want to be in their current hive.

If the colony would want to move away they would just do that.

I don't know if this is true. It's possible the bees are being manipulated into staying at their current hive in some way.

I don't think clipping the queen wings would do nothing

It would hurt the queen, which is more than I want to be involved in.

But I doubt any beekeeper colony would want to move as they are keep at a perfect environment so they can produce more honey that they would actually need to survive. Even industrial ones. It's part of basic beekeeping that bees must be in a good place so they produce the most honey

Making an assumption about what the bees want is not strong enough of an excuse for me to be ok with their exploitation. I don't believe we should have the right to make decisions for other organisms, and the bees are not able to tell us how they want to be treated, so we should not try to control them or take what they produce.

Hurt of mistreated bees would not produce honey.

This appears to also be an assumption. I do not know if it is true, so I cannot use it to make a decision

If they are mistreated the try to leave (and as stated they can just kill their Queen if she is crippled), they eat all the honey, or just die.

If this is true, there is likely to be a minimum amount of mistreatment before they take action. I do not know how much mistreatment a bee can take, so I cannot use this to make a decision.

Bees are really complicate to get advantage of. Our relationship with them need to be symbiotic to work.

I do not know if this is true. We take advantage of many animals without giving them much in return, so I am not sure if the bee-beeker relationship is actually symbiotic.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Now I'm just curious.

How do you manage the amount of animals that are hurt during agricultural process then?

Tons of invertebrates are killed by pesticides, while harvest or during the cleaning process of the vegetables.

It seems to me that being killed by pesticides or drown with water is worse fate that beeing in a nice artificial honeycomb where they may or may not clip the wings of one queen or make you a little sleepy once in a while with smoke.

On matter of animals hurted/killed during production process honey seems more vegan that most vegetables.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

This comment section has led me to more deeply consider the effects that all types of food production have on animals. I previously have just been ok with any non-animal product, but I now realize that this is not enough, and I am still causing harm to animals with the products that I do use. I will try to ensure that I buy the lowest-impact food available in the future, but I don't think it is even be possible to stay alive without causing harm to some animals.

I think using products produced by animals is generally going to be worse than harming animals to stop them from destroying crops, but I will need to consider this more deeply to make the best choice I can.

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