Women
A place for discussion, camaraderie, and advice.
For, from, and with women. Hi ๐
RULES:
--Be good to one another.
If you're not sure about what you're about to type, ask yourself: Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
--About, but not only for, women.
We are here to talk about, learn about, and wonder about women and their/our experiences. Men are allowed to post here, but only for the purpose of asking sincere questions about women or for advice related to a women in their lives they are trying to support.
--No bullies. No Creeps. No trolls.
No personal attacks, no misogyny, no misandry, ageism, racism, or otherwise hateful or disrespectful commentary.
--No selling products or services.
You can recommend products/methods that work for you, but soliciting clients or patients is not allowed. No advertising or self-promotions, including using this sub to drive traffic elsewhere.
view the rest of the comments
From the ProGrace website:
What a frightening sentence to have to read.
There is no such thing as "ProGrace"--this "third option" is co-opting and trickery. The question of whether women should have full access to healthcare during pregnancy is a completely binary one. The answer is Yes or No.
You either recognize that abortion is healthcare and believe that safe access to this healthcare, from a variety of providers, for any of the many reasons a woman may need or want it, is a woman's right, OR...you do not. Period. That's the whole thing. Any vague "third choice" is marketing trickery meant to soften the face of something that should disgust us all.
Also from ProGrace:
That really sums it up, doesn't it? "God's design for pregnancy"--this isn't a stance in healthcare conversations that should be given a moment of thought. It's fiction.
If Christians would like to begin encouraging each other to stop being judgmental toward people who have had abortions, I think that would be great. But keep the whole thing in-house, make it about Christians talking to other Christians about how they can get their behavior in line with their supposed religious beliefs. Don't make the whole thing about teaching Christians how to speak more empathetically to people who have had or are considering abortion for the purpose of being able to more successfully sell Jesus to those people. Because that's what this whole thing is actually about.
If you really want to help pregnant women the way Jesus would have wanted you to, use some of that sweet, sweet untaxed money from your money piles to start a car service that ONLY gives free rides (chauffeur style with the tinted window between the driver and passenger if the passenger would like to have it up) to women and one or two support people to and from their abortions. No conversation, no strings attached. And pay for the abortions. And throw in a Starbucks card with like $25 on it. Show these women the heart of Christ with your actions, not with phony words meant to control their minds, and maybe after they have their abortion that act of no-strings-attached kindness will have made such and impact that they will seek out a "church community" themselves instead of having to be coerced and cajoled into one in a moment of true despair.
Seriously, this is your new campaign...."WHAT WOULD JESUS DO? He would drive you to your abortion and pay for it, too, cause he was just that kind of guy."
EDIT: typo.
A transportation service is a great idea, thank you for sharing
Yeah it's all just got to be no-strings. No conversation necessary, no information collection beyond logistics-related information, no handing out pamphlets...the religious organization gets nothing at all out of the exchange beyond the knowledge that they've acted in accordance with the tenets Christ laid out so clearly. And I'm sure some extreme tax advantage that would practically make the fleet of cars free or whatever but that can't be helped I guess, after all, this is America.
Also, I would also say maybe look within and ask yourself if you feel good about what you're doing. "Tell me your pain" is quite a thing for a human being to ask of another. If you're asking so you can better sell your god product to other women in the middle of that same pain, well, that's kind of disingenuous if you really pray on it, isn't it?
I'm guessing god and Christian community has probably been pretty transformational in your life, and that you want that for other people, too. I know that is a genuine desire. But it's also a product you're selling, and selling it to someone who is in a potentially super vulnerable position under the guise of trying to help them with their crisis is pretty bad.
The last thing I would ask you to consider, is the fact that abortion is not a difficult choice for many women. They discover they're pregnant, they immediately know that continuing a pregnancy makes no sense and know without hesitation that they need to remove this matter (that does NOT feel like a baby to them at all) from their uterus as soon as possible.
When Christians seek to understand abortion so that they can be "more Christ like" in how they approach it, they often seem to want to hear stories of pain. Like maybe the fact that the woman was in so much pain, agonized over the decision, will never truly get over it, etc, somehow makes it more understandable. "She suffered so much, I can let go of the judgement on my heart" (a WILD sentiment in the context of Christianity, the sacrifice of Jesus, etc.)
But really, many women who have abortions feel about it the same way they would about removing a suspicious mole. It's a health-related chore that needs taking care of. They're not looking forward to it, but they WILL get it done and they will never regret it. Not even for a moment.
So, as you seek to understand, know that. Abortion is healthcare. That is the reality and many women don't feel any other way about it. I think you will hear less stories like that from women because the type of women who answer your call for sharing abortion experiences will more likely be women who have had bad experiences or who feel guilt and want to share it to feel better/seek forgiveness and healing through sharing.
Women who do not regret their abortion will be vastly under-represented in the stories you collect, but I think are very important stories for you to know exist. It's easier to empathize with pain, regret, loss. If you're truly seeking to transform yourselves with empathy around this issue, you need to work to meet "Oh yeah, I didn't want it so I got rid of it and feel no regret at all" with complete understanding.
When you can look a woman in the eye, and listen to her say "Yeah I got sloppy with birth control and got pregnant but I had a trip to Europe coming up that I'd been saving for for a while and it just wasn't a good time for me to even think about a pregnancy or baby so I took a pill and it was gone and EUROPE WAS AMAZING!" and feel no judgement, just acceptance, or maybe even happiness for this woman that Europe was so lit....well. That's when you know you've truly achieved your stated goal.