this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 33 points 4 months ago (15 children)

I've never shot paper targets, but might this be at extreme range? I mean, those don't look like circular holes, so I'd assume that the bullet is tumbling for some reason.

kagis

Sounds like the term is "keyholing".

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/308-tumbling-at-almost-a-mile.194313/

Long range noob here with some questions. Basically I was under the impression that a .308 would be tumbling by the time it reached it's target when shooting out to a mile. Now the reason I believed this is because just last week I was shooting my .338 out to 1585 and having fantastic results. I decided to try out my Warner build .260 just to see if I could get some hits at this distance. I eventually did have about 3-5 hits on a 24x24" steel out of about 20 rounds. Upon inspection of the target there were clearly visible strikes that showed the bullet impacting sideways. Essentially keyhole imprints on the target

https://old.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/el6h5q/holy_keyhole_batman/

That keyholing image looks a lot like the image of the target that OP posted.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (12 children)

It is keyholing. It happens when as you can see the bullet loses stability and tumbles in the air before hitting the paper sideways. It can be caused by many things. Insufficient rifling twist for the length of the bullet being used is one of them. The bullet hitting the ground or something else before hitting the target is another possibility.

Either way, it isn't a desirable thing and indicates that something is wrong. The fact that the PLA members are proudly posting pictures of a bunch of keyholes randomly splattered all over a target like that suggests that they think this is normal and that therefore they don't know what they're doing.

The term "keyholing" is also sometimes erroneously used to refer to when two bullet holes are touching on paper.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I think 5.45x39mm round they use tumbles a lot which causes this keyholing

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The standard "ball" bullet used by the Russian military, at least, in the 5.45x39mm is designed to easily tumble once it is inside the target. It is more of an effect of the bullet's construction and fine tuning of the rifling twist rate than the caliber itself. But it is still supposed to remain stable with the nose pointed forward when traveling to the target. Otherwise it becomes extremely inaccurate and loses its velocity very rapidly, which causes it to fall short.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The QBZ family of rifles, both the older bullpup Type 95 and its variants, and the newer Type 191, fire a 5.8 x 42mm round, not the AK 74 'poison bullet'.

While I am sure the PLA has tons of 47s, and 74s still in active use, their efforts to modernize have included introduction of and seemingly wide issuance of the QBZ 95 family since roughly the early 2000s, and more recently the Type 191.

Usually when they do publicity videos or images, they like to show off the QBZ family.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

If I learned anything of authoritarian countries claiming to be communist, they would never manufacture a whole new line of weapons without extensive testing, and if it turned out to be shit, they would totally have the self-reflection not to keep issuing it but to fix it and retry with a new variant. Totally.

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