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this post was submitted on 22 May 2024
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I honestly don't know what the hell you're supposed to do in America if a loved one has a psychotic episode and threatens you, because calling the cops for help could be a death sentence for them, but not getting help could be a death sentence for you. Maybe make some sort of plan with neighbors in case something happens? But then you get the neighbors all worried that they're living next to someone who could get dangerously psychotic. I'm not talking about what should be done if things were more ideal, I'm talking about what people with such loved ones should do if it happens today, May 22, 2024. Because it sounds like someone has a good chance of dying no matter what.
I mean, every criticism you level at the parents sounds like people worried that if they call police its going to go badly.
I have a severely autistic son. There is literally no circumstance where I would call the police for any event involving him. Unless there is a dead body on the floor, they are not getting a call.
I'm in a weird dichotomy where I need to be sure he knows to trust police in case somehow he's alone and needs help one day, while at the same time realizing that if he gets to that point he's probably fucked, and praying there is never, ever a time where he interacts with police without my wife or I between him and them. I can't say "look for a fireman" or "look for an ambulance" because there isn't always one of them around. But you never have to wait too long to see a cop.
Hopefully if that ever happens, he'll stumble across one of the less trigger-happy ones.
Nearly every single time I have seen someone make this particular excuse for police, a nurse or other staff from a healthcare facility will crop up to point out that they do it all day every day without having to kill people.
true, but in inpatient settings they have tools at their disposal and a context supporting safety that you lack. they have - locked doors, lots of people who can be summoned, people trained to restrain, injectable medication. probably other stuff i'm not thinking about. there's likely also an increased understanding of that person's issues, level of risk, and current medication and sobriety. even several hours of observation plus a secure environment gives staffers an advantage police lack.
so i work in mental health. it is very likely that i will have to call police on a client at some point. i have training that works well in some circumstances, but there are limits. i have, in fact, been one of the people here on lemmy that has pointed out people working with others with mental illness and disability manage things without guns.
i think police need training to work with people like this and to de-escalate in general. i think i lot of them need treatment for their own PTSD. i think they fucked up here.
but i don't think it's realistic either to think that they can, in practice, handle things the same way a nurse with many years of experience and additional tools can. and i would also point out that many social workers (not my profession but related, just the last field i saw stats on) have been assaulted by their clients.
i think the parents could have handled it better. i think it's possible cultural attitudes toward mental illness or other factors unique to the family played a part in their decision-making.
and as another parent of a person with developmental disability (plus serious mental illness), i think it is wise to prepare yourself and your child for how you might handle circumstances in which you or someone else needs to call for help. i don't think it is safest for your child or for you (or others, obviously) for you to refuse to call until there is a body.
but i also understand that your experience and your child are not the same as mine.
i just wish the cops hadn't fucked up, and i wish the family had done it differently. for all the good that does.
edit - extra words, a wrong word
Man a little hyperbole brings out all the haters. 🙂
All your points are reasonable. But I have to weigh all other factors against the likelihood that cops are going to show up and harm or kill my child unnecessarily.
Are there actually other circumstances where I'd call police? Probably. Is it MY fault that I need to do this calculus about whether the folks paid to help might kill my child instead? No, it's not, and I won't apologize for it.
no, you shouldn't have to do that calculus. but i want your kid to be okay if it ever comes to that.
Fair! And we agree on that bit for sure!
Fair, but I go back to my original comment. Possibly the parents would have behaved differently if they had any faith the police would have. As it turns out, the police didn't, they did what every parent of a special needs child fears.
Sure, OK, you have found a corner case. Bravo, I guess? We can pretend I was using the modern definition of the word "literally." 😉
It doesn't change the overall point.
Here's a hypothetical for you, which is far more likely than your own for an autistic kid. My son doesn't even have the concept of holding someone hostage, and I venture to guess this is true for lots of others on the spectrum.
Let's say he has a knife in his hand because that's what he happened to have in his hand (somehow) when his fight or flight mechanism was triggered, and now he's massively overstimulated, and in a meltdown. He's not trying to hurt anyone (I'm not convinced he knows stabbing someone is an option a knife provides), but he's waving it around because he is very active with his arms when he's overstimulated, and he might even try to grapple with someone while holding it, again not really recognizing the potential for great harm. It's going to be a real challenge to get it from him safely, and someone could get badly injured.
Do I call the cops in that circumstance? Not if I want to see him sans-bulletholes again. (Not a direct example of what I described, but close enough for these purposes.)
Edited to add - I read the story in OP, or I read about Linden Cameron, or I read about Elijah McClain (and others) and that's my son there, or may as well be. Elijah McClain especially - heartbreaking. Nothing about any of those circumstances seems like an outcome I couldn't imagine with any given group of police. I have no faith that more than a vanishingly small percentage would even see the problem with how these situations were handled, let alone try to do it differently.
I kinda took it as a bit of a strawman, even if unintentional. That's why I contrasted with a more reasonable one.
I appreciate that your intent is not to defend police regarding OP or in general. However, as I said elsewhere, are there actually other circumstances where I’d call police? Probably. My original statement was (slightly) hyperbolic.
However, is it MY fault that I need to do this calculus about whether the folks paid to help might kill my child instead? No, it’s not, and I won’t apologize for it.
Police have earned their reputation.
If I can't count on them to help without killing me or people I love needlessly, I'm not going to call them. I would think anyone, even a cop, would understand this fundamental requirement.
I'm sorry for the sad ending to your story, but glad that there were opportunities for joy along the way. These situations are tough, I get it.
I'd try to be understanding with the parents, but I admit family waiting too long is a problem. I remember watching this video and getting frustrated at every missed opportunity...