this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2023
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:::spoiler Excerpt from Michael Parenti's Blackshirts and Reds
Some leftists and others fall back on the old stereotype of power hungry Reds who pursue power for powers sake without regard for actual social goals. If true, one wonders why, in country after country, these Reds side with the poor and powerless often at great risk and sacrifice to themselves, rather than reaping the rewards that come with serving the well-placed.
For decades, many left-leaning writers and speakers in the United States have felt obliged to establish their credibility by indulging in anticommunist and anti-Soviet genuflection, seemingly unable to give a talk or write an article or book review on whatever political subject without injecting some anti-Red sideswipe. The intent was, and still is, to distance themselves from the Marxist-Leninist Left.
Adam Hochschild, a liberal writer and publisher, warned those on the Left who might be lackadaisical about condemning existing communist societies that they "weaken their credibility" (Guardian, 5/23/84). In other words, to be credible opponents of the cold war, we first had to join in cold war condemnations of communist societies. Ronald Radosh urged that the peace movement purge itself of communists so that it not be accused of being communist (Guardian, 3/16/83). If I understand Radosh: To save ourselves from anticommunist witchhunts, we should ourselves become witchhunters.
Purging the Left of communists became a longstanding practice, having injurious effects on various progressive causes. For instance, in 1949 some twelve unions were ousted from the CIO because they had Reds in their leadership. The purge reduced CIO membership by some 1.7 million and seriously weakened its recruitment drives and political clout. In the late 1940s, to avoid being "smeared" as Reds, Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), a supposedly progressive group, became one of the most vocally anticommunist organizations.
The strategy did not work. ADA and others on the Left were still attacked for being communist or soft on communism by those on the Right. Then and now, many on the Left have failed to realize that those who fight for social change on behalf of the less-privileged elements of society will be Red-baited by conservative elites whether they are communists or not. For ruling interests, it makes little difference whether their wealth and power is challenged by "communist subversives" or "loyal American liberals." All are lumped together as more or less equally abhorrent.
Even when attacking the Right, left critics cannot pass up an opportunity to flash their anticommunist credentials. So Mark Green writes in a criticism of President Ronald Reagan that "when presented with a situation that challenges his conservative catechism, like an unyielding Marxist-Leninist, [Reagan] will change not his mind but the facts." While professing a dedication to fighting dogmatism "both of the Right and Left," individuals who perform such de rigueur genuflections reinforce the anticommunist dogma. Red-baiting leftists contributed their share to the climate of hostility that has given U.S. leaders such a free hand in waging hot and cold wars against communist countries and which even today makes a progressive or even liberal agenda difficult to promote.
A prototypic Red-basher who pretended to be on the Left was George Orwell. In the middle of World War II, as the Soviet Union was fighting for its life against the Nazi invaders at Stalingrad, Orwell announced that a "willingness to criticize Russia and Stalin is the test of intellectual honesty. It is the only thing that from a literary intellectual's point of view is really dangerous" (Monthly Review, 5/83). Safely ensconced within a virulently anticommunist society, Orwell (with Orwellian doublethink) characterized the condemnation of communism as a lonely courageous act of defiance. Today, his ideological progeny are still at it, offering themselves as intrepid left critics of the Left, waging a valiant struggle against imaginary Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist hordes.
Sorely lacking within the U.S. Left is any rational evaluation of the Soviet Union, a nation that endured a protracted civil war and a multinational foreign invasion in the very first years of its existence, and that two decades later threw back and destroyed the Nazi beast at enormous cost to itself. In the three decades after the Bolshevik revolution, the Soviets made industrial advances equal to what capitalism took a century to accomplish—while feeding and schooling their children rather than working them fourteen hours a day as capitalist industrialists did and still do in many parts of the world. And the Soviet Union, along with Bulgaria, the German Democratic Republic, and Cuba, provided vital assistance to national liberation movements in countries around the world, including Nelson Mandela's African National Congress in South Africa.
Left anticommunists remained studiously unimpressed by the dramatic gains won by masses of previously impoverished people under communism. Some were even scornful of such accomplishments. I recall how in Burlington Vermont, in 1971, the noted anticommunist anarchist, Murray Bookchin, derisively referred to my concern for "the poor little children who got fed under communism" (his words).
Those of us who refused to join in the Soviet bashing were branded by left anticommunists as "Soviet apologists" and "Stalinists," even if we disliked Stalin and his autocratic system of rule and believed there were things seriously wrong with existing Soviet society. Our real sin was that unlike many on the Left we refused to uncritically swallow U.S. media propaganda about communist societies. Instead, we maintained that, aside from the well-publicized deficiencies and injustices, there were positive features about existing communist systems that were worth preserving, that improved the lives of hundreds of millions of people in meaningful and humanizing ways. This claim had a decidedly unsettling effect on left anticommunists who themselves could not utter a positive word about any communist society (except possibly Cuba) and could not lend a tolerant or even courteous ear to anyone who did.
Saturated by anticommunist orthodoxy, most U.S. leftists have practiced a left McCarthyism against people who did have something positive to say about existing communism, excluding them from participation in conferences, advisory boards, political endorsements, and left publications. Like conservatives, left anticommunists tolerated nothing less than a blanket condemnation of the Soviet Union as a Stalinist monstrosity and a Leninist moral aberration.
TLDR
Do you guys actually write this shit out or are you ctrl + v from some source? Every time i see hexbears they write up a whole journal article as a comment that most likely nobody is going to read.
I think a part of good, honest discourse is recognizing and respecting the time of the person you are talking with.
If you are going to respond with 11 paragraphs quoted from a book, you should preempt it by saying something to diffuse it. Something like, "oh man, this is super long but actually quite beneficial. I wrote a tldr though at the end in case you don't have time to read the whole thing."
I use this site while I'm at work. I literally don't have time to read all of that lol.
That's why I put it behind a spoiler to avoid clogging up the thread.
I put in the time of reading the book in the first place, then I remembered a relevant bit so I went back and looked through the book to try to find it, read through it again to make sure it was actually relevant, edited it because it was from a pdf and had wierd line breaks, and considered which parts were relevant to include and whether I should omit some of the examples. I cited that book not only because it expressed what I wanted to say, but also because it's written in a modern style that's easier to read than many socialist works.
I guess I'm just used to an environment on Hexbear where people are more receptive towards reading relevant theory and some of us actually read not just posts and excerpts, but whole entire books. Maybe I should've just posted Pig Poop Balls instead.
I don't doubt that you were doing it in good faith, but the execution was still in such a way that it is off-putting.
You have nothing of substance to contribute. Just "waaaaah your comment is more than a few sentences."
Say what you want, 11 paragraphs is objectively longer than what most people want to read on social media. 11 paragraphs is just annoying and unproductive.
You can see I'm right because literally everyone who isn't a hexbear is like wtf is this. It is bad communication.
In the time you've spent pissing and moaning about that comment you could have read it five times over.
That would be accepting it as good communication. My point is to not do that, because it is not good communication. I agree with you though, I could have.
You don't have to click the spoiler. It's literally one line you can easily scroll past, but some people who have more time might find it interesting.
Anyway it's a response to a pretty low-effort, unoriginal meme, the whole "proportional time" thing cuts both ways. I've added more to making these comments a meaningful, intelligent dialogue than OP did.
I will respectfully disagree that throwing in 11 paragraphs of some text without explanation adds to a meaningful dialogue
I will respectfully disagree that you can make that evaluation without knowing what the text actually says.
I get that the text might have some good and important meaning, but the format the meaning was delivered in spoils it.
Like, I would love it if someone gave me a million dollars. But do I want the million dollars in pennies? Not really lol
You're just complaining to complain at this point. Literally just scroll past if it's such a problem. All I did was lead you to water, I'm not forcing you to drink.
You choosing to die on this hill just makes me think of this lol
I'm just saying to package the words in a way that is comprehensible to the person reading it, and likely that they will.
I honestly don't doubt that there was some good content in it. But the audience you are talking to doesn't want the communication you are giving in that format. It comes off as annoying, and therefore not effective in communicating the message you want to deliver.
I'm over here delivering free marketing lessons to tankies lol.
I'm gonna go touch grass now. Good luck with stuff
Please do, anything else you could do can't be less productive than this.
Marketing lessons, lmao. You certainly have the intellectual depth of a puddle, my guy.
No one gives a shit about how much appeal our posting has for you. We're not trying to sell you anything. We're not even trying to cajole you into being a little less anti-intellectual and wilfully ignorant.
We'd rather just slap you down with a concise well cited historical source, just to make it abundantly clear to everyone else that you're an ignorant intellectually lazy non-entity who has no business getting involved. Stick to your monosyllabic social media communications, replying to the latest Facebook memes, and saying all the classic lines from Reddit.
We're not trying to get you to change, honestly I think you're much more entertaining this way. Only semi-literate and clearly too big for your boots. Please continue.
🤷♂️ it's all good my dude. If you don't want to learn how to communicate your message better, it's not my problem.
So what I'm getting is that you need to be sat down in front of a screen and have things explained to you in short, simple sentences, or else you panic and bolt.
You make it seem like theres a problem with that... i didnt come to a social media to read a textbook
No you come to social media to jump into threads about complex topics like history, philosophy, and politics...and then engage only thru simple thought-terminating cliches.
When someone quotes a relevant passage from a history book, you arrogantly dismiss it for being completely inappropriate for a "social media" site. What is appropriate here, of course, is you weighing in on these complex topics with the correct form of communication -- an incoherent series of monosyllabic words strung together.
Now that is productive communication.
I wish you luck on your continuing mission to convince yourself that you're the articulate master of communication here, actually.
Sorry can you dumb that down for me please