this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago (28 children)

Yes, but wisely by evolving beyond it, not by trying to fight a Goliath directly in their strongest areas. We're smart, we should be able to come up with real solutions.

Here's weird thought experiment

Think of our current government as scaffolding that we're all standing on 100 floors high, that is right on top of a slave/homeless/refugee camp/zoo (i.e. vulnerable populations). This scaffolding must be replaced because it's made out of rotting wood without sending us all crashing down on the camp and zoo killing billions of people and animals.

How do we do it?

The right wing position is to tear down the scaffolding by getting positions in site management and ordering replacing the rotting wood with broken plastic while kicking everyone they don't like, sometimes pushing them off the scaffolding. Of course, they don't care about any what the scaffolding is holding up or what's below, they just realized they can use this scaffold system to gain power and money.

The tankie position is to get your rotten wood hating friends together with their hammers and torches and start bashing. I guess they are either 1) seemingly unaware this will cause us all to fall, or 2) remember when it worked 100 years ago with the scaffolding was only 1 floor high and only a few people underneath and think it will be the same this time, or 3) are effectively right wingers on a different team in that they don't care about collateral damage as long as their team can rise from the ashes into power.

The liberal position is to put some polish on the wood and some rainbow and recycling stickers on some poles and send a few TV dinners below while we dump our trash down there and not admit that there are slaves down there making our stuff. The long-term problem of scaffold failure is talked about at various conferences and people donate millions to the "Replace the Rot" foundation.

I say the best way to go about it is to replace it part by part as it stands. Depend less and less on the bits of rotting wood and more on the strong sustainable replacements we build. Don't replace the very high bits that were built for ego by weak men, instead lift those underneath up onto the strong bits of the scaffold. Eventually we might realize that all that's left of the old rotting scaffold is that weak bit holding on at the end, might as well lop that off now that it's not critical to our survival anymore.

Now imagine we have an election between two site managers. Neither of them has any real plans to replace this scaffolding, in fact both have plans to expand it. Both candidates support the genocide in the neighboring scaffold.

Primary differences between candidates

Candidate #1 is going to criminalize talking about the scaffolding, ban encryption to ensure you don't talk about it, and start a new program to push more people off the scaffold.

Candidate #2 is going to do too little too late when it comes to truly solving the rotting scaffold problem or stopping people from falling off the scaffold.

Now ask yourself, under which candidate can I do more to solve the rotting scaffold problem directly? Under which candidate can I do my little part to solve the problem without falling or being pushed off the scaffold or being arrested? Under which candidate are fewer people going to be pushed off while me and my team go about fixing the scaffold ourselves because the leaders are unwilling or unable?


Voting is not about putting your support behind a candidate or identifying with them, it's a strategic decision taken to advance your goals.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (6 children)

I love seeing incredibly uniformed opinions around Marxist leninist positions.

Have you ever read like, anything a serious marxist leninist theorist and organizer wrote about conditions in the United States?

[–] [email protected] -4 points 7 months ago (5 children)

I have read some, but I don't need to read deep republican theory to see why their ideas are fundamentally wrong any more than I need to "read theory" to see fundamental issues with "Marxist" positions.

I've read "On Authority" and see it's obvious flaws.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I mean, you obviously have not read enough if you think MLs are "burn it all down, don't worry about the consequences" you understand Republicans because you've been exposed to them throughout your life, how many times have you had a long conversation with a communist?

I am not surprised someone linked you to "on authority" but reading a brief retort to anarchists is not the same as understanding dialectical materialism, scientific socialism, the business cycle, the tendency or rate of profit to fall, uneven development theory, marxist feminism, marxist anticolonialism, proletarian democracy, prefigurative politics, etc

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Why do you assume I don't know these ideas just because I don't agree with you? I am familiar with all of that, maybe not at your level, but enough to know I disagree fundamentally with the methods even if our compassion may be in common. I've talked with enough tankies that "burning it all down" is an apt enough description. War tends to do that.

There is nothing I could read that would convince me that massive authoritarian power structures put in place by war are the way to a stable sustainable peaceful future, the same way nothing I could read would make me believe in santa claus.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Why do you assume I don’t know these ideas just because I don’t agree with you?

Because you straight up said you've avoided looking into it in detail, your previous words:

I have read some, but I don’t need to read deep republican theory to see why their ideas are fundamentally wrong any more than I need to “read theory” to see fundamental issues with “Marxist” positions.

Also because from what I've read, you take a fundamentally reformist position which Marx painstakingly disproved the viability of over 150 years ago. If you've read capital to completion, or hell, just understood some of their short texts very well and extrapolated things yourself, you'd know a reformist position is unviable, and even if it were viable, would be magnitudes more violent than the worst mistakes and excesses of any ML movement.

I disagree fundamentally with the methods even if our compassion may be in common.

What methods do you disagree were inappropriate for the situations they occurred in? Because marxist leninists will probably agree that there was a mistake there to learn from, or will point out factors that might you might be uniformed or misinformed about.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I looked into it in detail enough to know what I need to know. I also didn't read Mein Kampf, should I read that before deciding I don't agree with fascism or is it enough to know that fascism fundamentally harms people and it doesn't matter what Mein Kampf says?

... reformist position Marx painstakingly disproved the viability of over 150 years ago

Disproved to you maybe, these are not facts. The bible proves things to Christians, they are wrong too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I looked into it in detail enough to know what I need to know. I also didn’t read Mein Kampf, should I read that before deciding I don’t agree with fascism or is it enough to know that fascism fundamentally harms people and it doesn’t matter what Mein Kampf says?

Wait, you don't want to understand the ideology that saved the world from German fascism, the ideology that supported and enabled liberation movements worldwide, the ideology that took Russia from a feudal backwater to space in 40 years, that advanced woman's rights in that time frame past women's rights in modern western countries? Why don't you want to understand the ideology of the most lgbt friendly government in the world, Cuba? Why don't you want to understand the ideology of countries that were historically much less violent than bourgeois 'democracies'?

Disproved to you maybe, these are not facts. The bible proves things to Christians, they are wrong too.

This is a flawed analogy because the Bible expects you to take things on faith, and Marx expects to have to thoroughly defend his position as it is a position contrary to the interests of capital. i love how you're arguing "well I'm not convinced" while refusing to even engage with basic ideas.

Some real taught to be afraid of shadows shit if you ask me.

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