this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2024
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I don't believe in rights. at least, there's no such thing as an inalienable right, since governments can and do take them away. I'm not even sure how to begin to answer your question given that I think that you're talking about fictions. sort of like asking me which anarchist society had the most thetans, or protection spirits.
I didn't think that I'd have to explain to somebody that the very existence of a hierarchy implies class structure. but I guess it's true that some people still side with the wrong people at the second international.
Not even positive rights? You're literally like "authority means it is by definition a class society" and you don't believe in rights? How do you square that circle?
It honestly feels like this is a cheap rhetorical dismissal because you don't want to compare what the actual material benefits of socialist revolutions are vs anarchist revolutions.
And of course, there was no hierarchy in actual anarchist societies. /s.
Have you never heard of the concept of a transitional state? You know, that thing that socialists and anarchists both do, that involves hierarchy in repressing right wing elements? That socialists actually acknowledge the evil of, as opposed to pretending like they're not doing a transitional state?
Or do you have a new super special plan to do classless society day one? If so I'd love to hear it.
yes. it's why we split at the second international. i wish you all would give up on the transitional state.
Can you name a large scale anarchist project that wouldn't qualify as a transitional state?
this is a setup for a no-true-scotsman. i'll talk to you about anarchist societies, but i won't let you define them out of existence.
Sorry, are you saying there haven't been any large scale anarchist projects?
i'm saying until you define "large scale" you gave your self enough wiggle room to push every scotsman into the sea.
Okay, containing more than 100, 000 people, that work for you?
and why should that be the metric?
Because that gives you generous wiggle room.
I guess I just don't understand what you're getting at..I don't have a chart of population sizes. I'm just going to say I don't know, but an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
let's say, though, that none ever existed. so what?
If none exist while socialist projects exist, that suggests that the ideology is nonviable at large scales at this point in time. And "just waiting" while capitalism cripples the biosphere and kills millions is an expression of prioritizing your own perfectionism over preventing actual suffering.
I think that many small interconnected communities is what we should be aiming for anyway, so any small community to me is evidence that it can work. The fact that all of these communities are surrounded by imperialists or capitalist societies doesn't preclude more people from forming egalitarian communities and communicating and working with those that are existant. I have no desire to build a system capable of oppressing people, because I don't want to be responsible for people's oppression.