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Are you using passphrases? Is it worth it? (discuss.tchncs.de)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Nowadays, most people use password managers (hopefully). However, there are still some passwords that you need to memorize, like master password (for a password manager), phone lock, wifi password, etc.

Security wise, can passphrase reach the strength of a good password without getting so long that it defeats the purpose of even using it?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

Sure. You can either increase the dictionary of possible words, or increase the number of words or both. Eventually it will become unwieldy. I don't bother with passphrases though.

I generate passwords of sufficient entropy (random ASCII), store them securely (encrypted, key memorized, on dedicated hardware), and never re-use them. I don't trust password managers unless open-source. I don't need convenience -- to some extent, it's my job to manage other people's secrets. Since I'm being paid, no need for shortcuts.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

Same. Pass phrases seem like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist anymore. We don't live in a world where people should be reusing and memorizing strong passwords. We live in a world with frequent user data theft and scams to glean your login info. Just last week, I started getting random login attempts from around the world for a Microsoft account I haven't used in over a decade. No idea when or how that info got leaked.

And people aren't equipped to memorize a different passphrase for all 30 of their accounts.

So, we should do what we always do: Get machines to make the issue easier for us to manage. Right now, that means password managers with a strong master password and secure storage.

In the future, maybe we'll have some kind of creepy central government ID based password-less login method. Who knows?

Edit: Besides, most services require ThIrTeEn dIgIt lOnG PaSsWoRdS WiTh fIvE SpEcIaL ChArAcTeRs aNd sIx nOn-cOnSeCuTiVe dIgItS Of pI ThAt dOeSn't mAtCh aNy kNoWn dAtE Or eVeNt oR SpEcIaL StRiNg oF NuMbErS. It's just too annoying, and I'd have to memorize all the special characters in addition to the phrase.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Yeah, I hate that. Forcing me to input special characters makes my password slightly less secure. Of course I'll include them by default, but now an attacker can eliminate all passwords without special characters. Most people just put the number 1 or a period at the end of their existing, frequently re-used password anyway. Or capitalize the first or last letter. So it doesn't make it really harder to crack dumb passwords.

It's like we've optimized passwords to be hard for humans to remember, but easy for humans to guess!

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