this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2023
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Why I dislike snaps (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

Screenshot doesn't even show half.

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This is an interesting way to show your fstab

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago
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[–] [email protected] 50 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There are many reasons one could choose to hate Snap packages, and this not one of them. It's like hating a webbrowser because it spawns 20 processes that (the horror) you would all see when you run ps. It's just a part of how container technologies work.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

This is truly why I also hate snaps though. The snapd people and the mount people need to work out how to hide these by default.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Try it in enterprise where you have automated systems that deploy alert sensors and they instantly go off because each mount is 100% full.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 10 months ago (7 children)

I think Snap has the potential to be better than Flatpak. It's a real sandbox instead of the half-assed shit Flatpak has going on. The problem I have with Snap is that Canonical keeps the Server closed-source. I don't want a centralized app store where Canonical can just choose to remove apps they don't like. So as long as the Server is closed-source, I will stay on Flatpak

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (2 children)

How is Snap's sandbox better than Flatpak's?

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Is Flatpak not a container system?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Kind of? Maybe?

It has similar goals to something like docker, but goes about it very differently, and it's obviously meant for user-facing applications.

You wouldn't use docker to install steam, but you can use flatpak.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I asked the question because of the label "half-assed" that the commenter above me put on Flatpak. I do not know much about snap, Flatpak and how they differ (other than the fact that both are used as containerisation technologies for desktop apps and the former is by Canonical), and why Flatpak is necessarily worse that snap (by what metric? System performance? Storage?)

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

That and these damn annoying loop devices.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Go restart your browser in the middle of the day because snap just updated it in the background.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Why I hate snaps/flatpak:

  • 1
    • package/appimage ~80mb
    • snap/flatpak >500mb
  • 2
    • p/a - app + dependencies
    • s/f - app + minimal linux distribution
  • 3
    • p/a - can be easily run from terminal
    • s/f - flatpak run com.very.easy.to.remember.and.type.name
[–] [email protected] 54 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (9 children)

snap/flatpak >500mb

Don't know about Snap, but Flatpak download sizes decrease significantly after installing the main platform libraries, they can become really small; of course that's pretty much fully negated if you're installing Electron apps, but even then 500MB isn't very accurate, more like 150MB on average

flatpak run com.very.easy.to.remember.and.type.name

Yes I hate it, what is even more annoying is that you can do flatpak install someapp and it will search matches on its own, it shows them to you to let you decide, but after that you can't do flatpak run someapp because it "doesn't exist"

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Last one could easily be fixed tho

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There's a nice program called flattool that solves the name issue

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Appimage literally requires more storage for the apps because it dublicates all dependencies so in terms of storage flatpak and dnaps win by FAR, there are valid reasons to criticize all three but your comment is a sad joke!

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

snap/flatpak >500mb

And to make it worse, snap keeps copies of previous versions of all programs. Which can be good if you need to roll something back, but at least last time I used Ubuntu it didn't provide any easy way to configure retention or clean up old snaps.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Runtimes are okay, the problem is there is no runtime package manager and often you have like 7 of them, which is horrible. But on modern hard drives also no problem.

Appimages cant be easily ran from terminal, you need to link then to your Path.

For Flatpak I made a tool that aliases their launch commands to be very easy.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

Appimages cant be easily ran from terminal, you need to link them to your Path.

On many distros "~/.local/bin" is already in PATH, that's where I put my appimages, then make them executable and it just works.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 10 months ago (3 children)

On the plus side, snaps also crap your system log full of petty little AppArmor events. And when snap gets its permissions wrong, you can easily fix it with SnapSeal.

(If Flatpak would just fucking stop rewriting every file path as /var/run/1000/blah, it would be the unquestionably superior package tech)

[–] [email protected] 127 points 10 months ago

Friction between Snap and AppArmor is to be expected. The corporate sponsor of Snap, Canonical, is well known for their icy relationship with the corporate sponsor of AppArmor, Canonical.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 10 months ago (8 children)

That's why I moved to fedora recently...didn't like to see 30 or so mounted filesystems every time I did an fdisk -l to mount some disk

[–] [email protected] 23 points 10 months ago

Luckily Debian is upstream of Ubuntu.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago

Don't use it - vote with your feet :)

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago

Leave ubuntu behind. Their snap fixation is toxic.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago

Switching to Gentoo has been the best. If I don't want something I just blacklist it in my make.conf. getting errors from an odd package? Blacklist. Don't want systemd or gnome software? Blacklist. It's great. My shit runs insanely fast and my system only breaks when I explicitly do something stupid, and it's usually just one minor adjustment away from getting fixed.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Sigh, I was a sysadmin on my own system from 1999-2008 and on a busy server from 2008-2012... then essentially quit. Now with flatpak and snaps it seems I have no idea what I am doing.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Flatpaks aren't very relevant for servers if I am not wrong but Canonical definitely tties to push Snaps for that usecase, I feel like other container technologies like Docker or Podman are a lot more relevant in that context and containerization in general is really nice especially for server use and not that hard to wrap your head around! ;)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, that's really what I haven't used that seems significant these days - Docker. I used to use VMs a fair bit including the premade ones from MS for IE testing, which I think (?) are the same concept.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago

I take the unconditional and mandatory creation of ~/snap as a middle finger to all users. Fuck snap

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago

thats why i prefer/like flatpak

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (2 children)

They also kill performance if you're still using a hard drive as your system drive. I know we should all be using SSDs, it's 2023, but sometimes it's not always possible

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Thankfully the OS/app drive is an SSD. The rest are spinners though. Just for low bandwidth storage.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I don't like snaps, but dude... Do you even know what fstab is?

[–] [email protected] 34 points 10 months ago (1 children)

IIRC, it is a C runtime function that stabs a file.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

It is actually the secure version that requires you to specify a buffer length of the old insecure ftab function that is in half a dozen standards that counted the lines indented by tabs in a file. Of course they didn't change the fact that it just writes the result number as a string into an output buffer instead of returning an integer because that would make it less portable to operating systems which still use the insecure standard version.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That would be the same of hating docker because it creates networks. It's just how it's sandbox works.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

Yeah, there are reasons to criticize snaps but the fact that it takes a lot of space in some UI is not really one of them.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

Oh my god I hate this, I had no idea

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

There are plenty of reasons to dislike Snap, but tbh "it exposes the UI and UX weaknesses of other apps" isn't really a good one

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